Former National Sales Director Amy Dunlap Alleges Mary Kay is a Pyramid Scheme
This week Amy Dunlap filed an amended answer in the lawsuit Mary Kay Inc. has filed against her for alleged violations of her national sales director agreement. The most notable part of the answer and counterclaims is the portion in which Dunlap alleges that Mary Kay violates the Texas Business and Commerce Code by promoting a pyramid scheme.
The Texas code defines a pyramid scheme:
“Pyramid promotional scheme” means a plan or operation by which a person gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from a person’s introduction of other persons to participate in the plan or operation rather than from the sale of a product by a person introduced into the plan or operation.
And the filing gets even better. Amy says she spent over $125,000 to purchase products from Mary Kay, and that “… Mary Kay intentionally and grossly deceived [Amy] as to the extent of an actual retail market for the resale of the goods purchased from it at wholesale by [Amy] and the other members of its sales force…”
Amy again alleges that Mary Kay lies to recruits when telling them that they will “own their own business”:
By agreeing to acquire her beauty consulting business as an independent contractor, entrepreneur and the owner of her own business as a result of her contracts with Mary Kay, Defendant/Counterclaimant was a consumer of the Plaintiff/Counterdefendant goods and services as that term is defined under §17.45 of the Texas Business and Commerce Code, having relied on the written and oral representations of Plaintiff/Counterdefendant that, as an “independent dealer” she was the “owner of her own business.” Throughout her relationship with Mary Kay, until the very end, she was deceived by the company’s continuous, non-stop, orchestrated campaign through speeches at the annual Seminars, business opportunity meetings, CDs, DVDs, cassette/VCR tapes, brochures, letters and emails, representing to her and the other Consultants in her National Sales Director unit (known as her “Area”), and throughout the company for that matter, that they were being provided by Mary Kay the business opportunity of “owning” their “own business.”
Remember that previously I revealed that Amy Dunlap said this exact thing to women she was recruiting, so her hands are as dirty as Mary Kay’s on this issue.
More on the lack of a retail market for Mary Kay Cosmetics:
Mary Kay intentionally and grossly deceived the Defendant/Counterclaimant as to the non-existence of a viable retail market for the resale of the goods purchased from it at wholesale by Defendant/Counterclaimant and the other members of its sales force, making the sale of “her own business” to Defendant/Counterclaimant, which consisted of the bundle of tangible services and products acquired by her, a sham transaction, of little or no value to the Defendant/Counterclaimant. Since Defendant/Counterclaimant could not retail more than a small percentage of the goods she purchased from Mary Kay at wholesale prices, she was forced to give away most of the goods to prospects, and ultimately, to charitable organizations. Contrary to Mary Kay’s misrepresentations to Defendant/Counterclaim regarding the existence of a strong and viable retail market for its goods, the only real market for its goods is the sale at wholesale prices of same by it directly to new IBCs disguised as “training,” “start-up” and “fast start” packages, wholesale sales by Mary Kay to those IBCs caught in the web spun by Mary Kay manifested by its compensation scheme…
What??? Someone who was so successful that she got to the top position in the pyramid, and she couldn’t actually sell “more than a small percentage” of the products she bought from Mary Kay?And the real market for the products is consultants, and that’s why large inventory packages are pushed?
And in case you didn’t understand the first time that Amy Dunlap is saying consultants are only able to sell a very small quantity of products:
… when in truth and in fact the vast majority of its sales volume is made up of the wholesale purchases by its own sales force who are then unable to retail what they have bought from the company.This lack of a retail market, which manifests itself in the inability by the Mary Kay sales force to make retail sales of the vast bulk of the items purchased by the sales force at wholesale, is well known to Mary Kay. Mary Kay conveniently hides behind its public position that virtually all of the wholesale sales to its sales force result in retail sales of those products but pleads ignorance to knowing the extent of the actual paucity of retail sales since it does not track retail sales made by its sales force. Mary Kay’s own corporate interests are well served by this dodge, as all the while it is racking up record sales and profits of its own merely by the sale of its items to its own sales force, many of whom are operating under and themselves perpetuating the myth perpetrated by the company that retail sales are what drives it.
If possible, it gets even better. Amy Dunlap admits to cheating to get through NIQ (national in qualification), buying more than $48,000 of products to help the units in her area meet the requirements so Amy could become a national sales director:
During the time she was a National Sales Director in Qualification (NIQ) Defendant/Counterclaimant and her husband invested more than $48,000.00 in wholesale purchase of products from Mary Kay in order to help eighteen of her Sales Directors meet the stringent $4,000.00 per month minimum qualification for each of their sales units each month for four months, in order for Defendant/Counterclaimant become an NSD.
And Amy says that “dozens” of others got to the position of nsd in the same way. She claims this cheating is systemic:
Mary Kay supposedly had rules to prevent this kind of “garage qualification” but everybody knew how to go around the rules because they were taught by their trainers how to do it.
She reveals the problem with the DIQ (director in qualification) process, and people buying their way up the career ladder:
As a consequence of this Mary Kay scheme, the vast majority of those attempting to qualify in the DIQ and NIQ categories rack up huge purchases of unneeded product from Mary Kay accompanied by crushing, bankruptcy causing, mortgage defaulting, divorce causing debt. If a consultant gives up after putting out the $4,000.00 per month for a month or two, or simply falls short of that amount in the third month, they lose their entire investment, have a garage full of product that they will not be able to sell, and lose all of their second and third line recruits and, by Mary Kay rules of qualification, can never get them back.
Amy outs some of the women who cheated in this way:
As for other examples of Consultants who have fallen into this deceptive trade trap laid by Mary Kay: consultant Gena Gass borrowed tens of thousands of dollars, Michele Sudeth had to obtain a second mortgage on her home, and Donna Meixsell put what she lacked in NIQ on retired Senior National Sales Director Pat Fortenberry’s credit card.
Don’t forget that Amy has also revealed in this case how little money she made at the top of the pyramid.
When you roll around with pigs, you should expect to get dirty. Both Amy Dunlap and Mary Kay are pigs in this case. They use dirty, deceptive tactics to recruit women and convince them to buy inventory that they have little hope of being able to sell. Thus, Amy’s outrage at Mary Kay’s practices is ridiculous.
Visit the
The truth is coming out for all to see now. WOWSERS.
Oh. my. stars. The poo is a’flying. I bet many upper ranking directors and NSDs are wondering how large the bag of poo is, and what might get flung in their direction.
Donna Meixsell put what she lacked in NIQ on retired Senior National Sales Director Pat Fortenberry’s credit card. This would be a good question for a reporter to ask both Meixsell and Fortenberry: “How much did Meixell put on the cards, and was it a good investment for Fortenberry? Did the $10,000 yearly bonus Fortenberry got for having spawned a daughter NSD pay off the debt?”
I note that GMB promptly spawned a number of daughter NSDs … at $10,000 a year bonus per each, it might have been worth “investing” in their careers.
So, if this were actually proven to be true, what are the chances MK would oust Meixsell?
It depends on what serves MK best. I have it from a reliable source that Meixsell’s shenanigans were reported directly to MK when they were happening, but she was still appointed NSD.
MK is in a real pickle. They benefit greatly from all the cheating. Huge orders of unneeded products simply to “finish” the goal of NSD. Money in MK’s pocket. Why would they want to stop that?
On the other hand, they have to make people believe the model has integrity, or they hurt their chances of future recruiting.
Hey…I’m thinking the best. In Amy’s case, she may have had her come to Jesus moment. Like MANY of us here who ALSO played in pig-land.
Can you all imagine the tremendous guilt and FRAUD held within probably 99% of the upper sales force? Who can live with that? The only thing that changes it all is a breakdown of denial and the courage to repent! I have a feeling that while perhaps motivated by retaliation, Amy may also be facing for the first time, the lifting of the pink fog.
I still remember the TERROR of facing, Oh my God, it isn’t just me it is systemic and the whole gang have been lying through their teeth. How? How can it be? How can women stand on stage and LIE together in one huge accord?
There is a perfect storm of denial, people pleasing, low self esteem, hope, recognition-starved, character defect, workaholism, and fake- it- till- you- make- it “soup” that is Mary Kay.
Coming clean takes courage and one huge step out of denial.
Raisin – I’m not so confident that Amy has had a change of heart. She is deep into Isagenix, which undoubtedly is no better than Mary Kay when it comes to recruiting and the whole MLM game. If she was out of MLM, I might be inclined to believe she’s had a change of heart. As it stands, it looks to me like she is only trying to save her skin in any way possible.
Oh brother. In that case, what explains denial at these proportions? I got nothing. How in the hell can you write all these counter claims and not see you are doing EXACTLY the same thing all over again?
Seriously. I’m not kidding. What explains this?
Obiously Amy has not seen the light. However, her countersuit is a God sent, full of truths about MK. It validates everything you have championed on this site. The cat fight may bring change to the Mary Kay “business opportunity” or not. In any rate, it is glorious to see this in a legal document. 🙂
Her lawyer’s just saying stuff that he believes he can plausibly prove after discovery…and he’s trying to make them shit their pants that they might actually have to take it to trial. It would make Mary Kay look *really* bad, and all MLMs look *really* bad, to be in the news in this respect. So what’s likely to happen is a very quick settlement.
If the case goes to trial and Amy wins her counterclaim, all the former IBCs/SDs/etc. ought to sue Mary Kay as a class. Man, if Amy’s lawyer is smart, s/he could make a metric. effton. of money by setting the stage for a huge class action lawsuit (unless the IBC contract has a class action waiver…or an arbitration agreement in it…). “I sued MK in Texas and won.” …I’d let that guy represent me!
I wonder who Amy can call as a witness…
she has witnesses
Incidentally, I think he lifted a lot of stuff right off your website. It would not surprise me if this site has helped him make those allegations more so than anything Amy said. Hell, since she’s working for an MLM, it’s likely that she doesn’t believe there’s any problem with what MLMs are doing.
I agree, Rasinberry. It does take a lot of guts to come out with all of this publicly, even to throw your former peers under the bus! I’m not so concerned with pure intentions (no one among us us can say that ours are 100% of the time) as the fact that these crooks will all be accountable to their actions.
Lazy points out the “system” by which a person can be duped into justifying their lackluster behavior.
Even at levels well below National, we were “groomed” to figur out our commissions as “offsets” for orders we had to place, because of the commission structure of 4%, 9% and 13% plus the Director bonus levels.
Schooled in “the Mary Kay way”, a team leader is nudged to up her order to 600 to get the 13% she only gets when 5 on her team order.
Now why would that commission break down even exist? It is DESIGNED to get the higher order and justified by the return in slightly higher commission.
Friends, it is TRAINING for the very things NSD AMY and all the others have done, and it desensitizes a person on the road to the top.
“Find a way or make a way.” So we did. And then we were applauded.
And then we got the luncheon, the stage walk, the sleepover, the sash, the ring.
Do not for one minute believe that the structure of Mary Kay and its commissionable levels are not expertly manufactured to coerce and manipulate the highest possible dollars out of …the end consumer??? NO! The sales force!!
It really is not in Pink Truth’s interests to attack Amy Dunlap when she is doing what you should want her to do. This site is full of articles in which women explain how hard it is for someone who has been sucked into Mary Kay to admit the truth, and now Amy Dunlap is admitting the truth. She should not be scorned just because she was an nsd.
Over and over again on this site nsd as misrepresented as being at the top of Mary Kay. They are not. The people at the top of Mary Kay are the executives at head office and above all the owner Richard Rogers, and they should be the main target of attack. Nsd’s are the top slice of Mary Kay’s victims. Yes, they exploited other women, but so did everyone else who has a single recruit.
Amy is being scorned because she lied just as she is accusing Mary Kay of lying, and because she is still heavily involved in MLM. No matter the name of the company, MLM is a recruiting scam. If Amy had any real change of heart, she would not be a part of Isagenix.
My two cents worth: yes, I am glad the Mary Kay tactics are being aired, but all I see is Amy covering her butt. If she was serious in the manipulation of MLM, she wouldn’t have jumped from one ship to the other. Had she removed herself from the business model once and for all, I would see her credibility. I don’t know how Isagenix works, but in my mind it’s still the MLM business model.
Regardless, I hope others who are in MK read Amy’s amended answer and realize that hey, this is the truth.
No, all MLM’s are not created equal. Many are truly based on a direct-selling model. I am involved with such a company now. I learned a lot about what to avoid in a company after my short time in MK.
That is absolute crap. Almost every single MLM company calling itself “direct sales” is not direct sales at all. They are recruiting focused, which makes them pure MLMs. The company you’re in now is VERY MUCH MLM. All of them are to be avoided.
Look at it this way, kids. Think of examples of what you would consider the most desirable products in the world–whether fashion, beauty, electronics, motors, original art…NOT ONE of the things we fantasize about or work toward BUYING with our hard-earned would be hawked through an MLM. Reputable makers wouldn’t dream of sh*tting on their product in that way…
And that’s one of the things that makes me sad about all this. Lots of women *love* makeup–not only the making up but the cases, the scents, the packaging–it’s lovely and arty and is tied in with fashion and design and history. So to run a racket where you pump out “beauty” products just to sit as useless mocking lumps in someone’s garage while she devotes her every breath to trying to get rid of them…that’s an outrage to makeup-bunnies too.
turned blue, huh? Gosh I bet I know what company you mean and, yes, you really gotta get out..
Diret selling does not make a Company an MLM and our company does not allow for personal use Consultants – the sales minimums are in the 10s of thousands (you can’t buy products and inventory them) per year (not hard to do but impossible if not selling). There are no big prizes or incentives – just income. It’s a real business and has supported my family exclusively for over 10 years now. I never miss my children’s events anymore and have reclaimed my life.
Any Company that requires a person to recruit in order to actually make money should be your first major red flag – SCAM. Fortunately not ALL are this way, although I do think it is MOST.
Recruiting and receiving commissions doesn’t make a Company a scam – even realtors do this. You have to look at the business as a whole.
““The people at the top of Mary Kay are the executives at head office and above all the owner Richard Rogers, and they should be the main target of attack. “
You are like the guy standing in the rear of the crowd yelling “Lynch him!” while staying well back from the fray.
Philip, if you think it needs doing, go for it. Marshal your facts about the management and owners, write an article or articles and either send them to Tracy or publish them yourself.
Philip,
actually working at Corp office is way different than being a consultant. Even though the lady might be a NSD she is still a consultant. People at corp office don’t have to order every month just to keep their jobs and worry about their team making production every month. Lastly they don’t have to worry about losing their team month after month.
While the nsds are victims as well, because they are the driving force behind the masses who victimized at the lower levels, I afford them no special protection. They are the reason the fraud continues to be perpetuated. They go out and do the guest events and flaunt their alleged wealth to recruit others. I will not excuse their behavior simply because they were swindled too. They had a choice to stop the deception… and they did not.
Hah, I was just about to say that there’s probably some variation of the “unclean hands” defense to Amy’s counterclaim, because she never complained about the fraud and participated (gleefully) in it.
The problem with pulling the “unclean hands” defense is that you have to admit that your hands are dirty as you shriek about the other person’s hands.
Does Mary Kay want to go there and say, “Yes, we lied but so did she, so she can’t use that against us.”
If it goes to trial, the stakes are really high for MK. I looked in the IBC/NSD agreements and there’s no class action waiver or arbitration clause, so the real amount in controversy isn’t whatever Amy’s alleging, it’s the amount of ALL consultants’ wholesale orders (within the statutes of limitations) if they lose–which could easily happen. Juries are crapshoots, but between Mary Kay and Amy, who is more sympathetic?
MK & Amy have to either (1) settle before filing an answer to the counterclaim, thus getting a voluntary dismissal of the entire case, or (2) MK has to file a “kitchen sink” type of answer to the counterclaim because if you do not assert your defenses in your answer, you waive them. Now, I doubt Amy is seeking her NSD-ship back, so unclean hands doesn’t precisely “work” (it only works for equitable relief, I think), but there’s probably a defense I don’t know about that they’ll bust out. They might even say unclean hands in their answer to the countercomplaint, but it’s not uncommon for defendants to put forth defenses they know they’re not entitled to. That gets dealt with much later, right before trial (summary judgment stage).
/popcorn
So if MK loses, then MK appeals, who writes an amicus brief? The DSA, I’m sure.
Another thing–this could get the FTC to fix the very broken Amway rule. And wouldn’t that be nice?
This whole scenario reminds me of the movie, “A Few Good Men”.
We all it goes on but to actually have a former NSD to admit it is something I wish everyone else in MK could see. It is sad that she hasn’t learned her lesson;
I think this is really timely considering all the articles in the last month exposing MK as a fraud. The Amy Dunlap litagation will put the perverbial deadly crack in the MK empire. Let’s watch for the fall. This is huge, and will be very difficult for the rest to walk away and pretend everything is fine in MK. I know she is still an mlm tool like the other crazy…Alison, Lamarr, but, there is no denying what Ms. Dunlap has revealed. It pulls the curtain from behind the scenes. Let’s see how MK and all their followers slick talk their way out of this piece of news.
I think regardless of her motives, the explicit nature of her statements can only be a good thing. It can also establish precedent, both in a legal sense and in opening the gate for other women to come forward.
If she wants subsequently to jump off a cliff with another MLM, that’s her choice. But what she has stated here can’t be made to disappear–and that is wonderful news.
Good point. I just don’t want Amy to be seen as the victim when she was a willing participant who knew of the fraud and sold it to recruits.
Yes, they exploited other women, but so did everyone else who has a single recruit.
Sincerely,
gotheart
I am glad she made the points she did however I think MK will still win.
MK will claim that she did it on her own because she is an independent contractor. And since she is involved in another MLM they use that against her. They will say “see she is still conducting the same practices as she did in MK therefore it is on her”
MK has tons of money and is well prepared for these things. They spent a lot of money and time on those agreements they want the IBC to sign. They have worded everything in their favor. I would be surprised if anyone can win against them
lost my comment in the copy stage.
I dont have time to do over.
Philip, I like what ya said, but not knowing did women exploit other women.
I remember when the actual word “recruit” was taken out of the ibc and sd, nsd vocabulary.
Replaced with “share”.
We were told, ‘the military recruit”
“Women like to “share”. Sare the opportunity.
Thus came the” Red Jacket” to replace the term “Star Recruiter”.
The company I am sure had a psychologist come in and help them with terms to help change the image of ibc.
Linda Tupin designed the “Business Debut” under the guise of helping new ibc kick off her business and to curtail any doubting Thomas in the family. This “selfless” idea caught on like fire from Indiana and spread thought out all the states. It was an opportunity for Linda to start at the grass roots of a ibc so called business and control it to design Linda’s paycheck for the month. Thus her nsd area sprang from. It worked.
Sincerely,
gotheart
Mary Kay isn’t the only one who can hire lawyers. Thousands and thousands of bilked women are not without access to lawyers as well. And as the picture of MK emerges I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the nation’s more socially conscious legal big guns offer to step up pro bono.
“Mary Kay isn’t the only one who can hire lawyers. Thousands and thousands of bilked women are not without access to lawyers as well. And as the picture of MK emerges I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the nation’s more socially conscious legal big guns offer to step up pro bono.”
I would add that the climate is right for this to happen. We’ve witnessed so far many articles bunking the lies of MK and now they have another high profile NSD telling the real story. This will attract many to come out and fight the fraud. My gut tells me this maybe the begining of the end for this company.
Aside from all the financial damage, I can’t help thinking about the legal phrase ‘intentional infliction of emotional distress.’ The mark of an MK consultant has to be intractable and all-consuming loneliness–they are NEVER free to enjoy real human contact, to share their real feelings with ANYONE including their spouses, to have a reason to talk or smile or go anywhere except for the purpose of serving Mary Kay.
And whole communities, especially in small-town working-class America, become isolated from themselves–the lonely housewives within them kept from each other’s company by both the illusion of wealth difference and the inability to regard time not spent making money or spending it as valuable…
From Texas code:
(6) “Pyramid promotional scheme” means a plan or operation by which a person gives consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from a person’s introduction of other persons to participate in the plan or operation rather than from the sale of a product by a person introduced into the plan or operation.
Does this describe Mary Kay Cosmetics? Consider:
1. Mary Kay does NOT track retail sales, therefore, they do not care how much product its consultants sell. Nobody gets compensated from product SALES in Mary Kay. Compensation comes from how much product is ORDERED.
2. As we’ve heard, MK Corporate reps like Crayton Webb can squawk the whole “Inventory is their choice” line, but that choice is severely influenced by widespread and heavily-skewed “advice” telling new consultants everything from “Target stocks their shelves, so shouldn’t you?” to “If you don’t stock inventory, you’re setting yourself up for failure.”
3. You could sell a truckload of makeup and Mary Kay will not promote you one rung up that career ladder. Recruit just one person and get them to come in with at least $600 in inventory, however, and whammo, instant promotion. What does THAT tell you about Mary Kay’s priorities?
Mary Kay can honestly say that women don’t get compensated just for recruiting others into the business and that all it takes to join is paying $100 for a starter kit. HOWEVER, women DO get compensated for recruiting others into the business if they can get them to come in “qualified” ($600+ in inventory).
That’s the loophole MK’s been using, people. It’s all tied to the inventory.
Amy is no victim, but neither is Mary Kay. Unfortunately, in a lawsuit, someone has to be the victor, or “victim” and if there has to be one, I’m going with Amy. Mary Kay started it by going after her, and Allison for that matter. What are they supposed to do, not defend themselves? What she is saying is the truth, after all.
She will probably lose, being that corporations, contracts and money are Gods in this country, but people need to hear this stuff from the higher ups. The hypocrites going to other MLMs, including her, will get theirs when the whole MLM scheme crumbles, but first, one of them has to go down.
I wish both MK and Amy could lose this case. Is that possible? 🙂
I wish that were possible. If it’s thrown out (not likely) Amy wins. If it is lf they decide to settle & the case is sealed MK wins by saying little. Just a hot mess either way.
They’d both lose if the judge ruled MK was operating as a pyramid scheme and Amy was a knowledgable promoter of the scheme. However, since the state Attorney General and the feds are not parties to the lawsuit, I doubt Amy’s current tactic is going to produce much fruit. Besides, Amy can make all the allegations she wants, but she’s going to have a heck of a hard time proving she wasn’t a willing participant and didn’t know what she was doing.
In the end I’d wager her pyramid scheme allegations, however accurate, are going to be little more than a diversion. The lawsuit is about Amy signing a stupid contract and then violating it. It’s not illegal to sign stupid contracts. Amy would probably have to prove the contract was illegal, completely unreasonable, and/or voidable to prevail.
Furthermore, since Amy seems to have a habit of signing such stupid contracts, her credibility is a little strained… She didn’t get out of MK because she figured out the contract was funky; she got out because another MLM offered her a similar funky contract and she saw a chance to make fast money by violating her MK contract.
Amy has witnesses.
And those that will testify.
She resigned from MK and went about starting her other business with Isagenix.
It was KARLEE ISENHART and VICKY FUSELIER and other NSD”s that are JELOUS of her new income with out THEM that started the MK lawsuit –
My thought as I have watched this explode over the last 15 months is the NSD’s greed for power and money will be the downfall of the company. I resigned my directorship and returned product in july –
MK is NOT a God and Family anything, anywhere in your life company.
Just sharing. I’ve been on TOO many Mexican trips with the NSDs to feel sorry for anyone but the SOMEONE”s who are trying to escape MK and reclaim their lives!
No, Mary Kay started the lawsuit. Not other NSDs.
What is there to be jealous of? Isagenix is a crappy MLM just like all the rest, and is certainly no better than MK.
It was MK who HAD to pursue the lawsuits because Karlee Isenhart, Vicky Fuselier, and Pat Fortenberry were pushing hard for it. We all got phone calls to not answer our phones if Amy Dunlap called us. That Isagenix was the Devil. I know this first hand because I received a phone call from my NSD, even after I resigned my directorship to purse my college degree. Believe me, the NSD’s in our area are threatened by Isagenix and they have begged people not to do the business. I have researched Isagenix & the comp plan is different from MK’s marketing plan. Not all MLM’s are schemes. Amy was not calling anyone it was all the NSD’s calling their areas and making people curious of what was going on. Believe me the NSD’s have done their research on Isagenix and YES, they are threatened by the company especially when they are having area conference calls talking about Isagenix. There is so much more to it & soon more will come out but as for now that’s all I can say…To be continued…..
So Amy was poaching for her new MLM, using the contact lists she acquired from inside Mary Kay, while working as an NSD?
Probably violated her non-compete , as well as annoyed the heck out of the upline she was poaching from.
The problem with a word like “poaching” is, it gives credence to the idea that Mary Kay *owned* these women. In my mind the women are still free to make other choices, even hideous ones.
If MLMs didn’t suck every last bit of time, life, joy and money out of a woman they wouldn’t care what *else* she did. But another MLM on the horizon means a threat of losing the entire chunk of income-producing property (called Debbie or Trish or Susie or whatever) to a competitive virus…Co-infecting isn’t possible, because each MLM demands ALL.
There was NO Contact list. Amy was not calling anyone in MK.
I heard the same thing… actually heard that people were actually contacting HER to join isagenix personally i would too if i were them… O just a little bit more info I do know for a fact that Karlee Isanheart had a call for all of her down line to cast the “devil” out of Isagenix….Have you ever thought maybe marykays a cult?
I know about that call too. They were praying for everyone that joined Isagenix. Another thing too is when a director quits MK the NSD’s say they have lost their mind, or are bi-polar or have fallen off the deep end. I heard my NSD was saying that about me when I quit MK to finish my college degree. I was in MK for 12 years, a top director in our area for 11 and it’s funny how fast the NSD’s turn their backs on you. I witnessed first hand how cruel they were to Amy. I hadn’t heard from my NSD for a whole year after I resigned & I get a phone call from my NSD slandering Amy. Amy & I have been friends since my first MK seminar in 99. I called Amy to find out what was going on. I had directors calling me to find out what was going on. All I have to say is Vicky shot herself in the foot because no one knew what “ISAGENIX” was until Vicky & Karlee started spreading the word. And “yes” to your cult question.
I’m cracking up here. Mary Kay has no clue as to the # of current NSDs and directors that are IN Isagenix while still doing their thang in MK. They sign up under fake names (Isagenix allows for that). And yes, they are using their MK contact lists, but they’re careful about it. Robin BD has taught them well. lol. I think Isagenix is a scam and a rip-off, but nonetheless these MK ladies are flocking to it. Why? Because it’s easier (NO SCC’s) and the binary system actually pays better. This is only gonna get better and better… Pass the popcorn please!
YES YES YES to the CULT question! LOLOL
The funny thing is I heard NSD Fuselier calling Amy Dunlap’s church a “CULT” just because she did not attend career conference and seminar because of family & church conflicts!! TOO FUNNY – Remember God & Family before Career? And now her church is a CULT??
But alas, I am CRAZY amd BI-POLAR and BAD NEWS to all the “directors’ in my past NSD area because I resigned my directorship and returned MK to corp and “someone” had to payback commission…on $18,000 retail! LOLOL
Sadly, I joined MK and started my business on pure belief and with $400 product (NO FREEBIES) and I do not believe in CC’s – (I was a Dave Ramsey gooroo before there was a Dave.) – SO guess what my unit never came in with more that $600 w/s, because I knew they could always both build inventory from sales if they really SOLD the product OR the could use the $600 w/s personally and for gifts if SKC’s were not for them.
BUT YES I WAS CRAZY!! MY NSD NEVER liked the way I ran the unit – but then I never liked the moral compass she ran her life on either – IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT NSD AREA YOU ARE IN – THEY ARE ALL PROGRAMMED ALIKE!! Make no assumptions – THEY ARE ALL ABOUT THEIR OWN BOTTOM LINE $$$ NOT THE CONSULTANTS!!
I laugh at the fact that anything that does not make NSD money is either a CULT or the DEVIL!! My NSD even asked my to miss a family funeral for a career conference!! LOLOL
I think we need to support EVERYONE on EVERY level that is coming out of the brain washing by trying to leave MK!!
Wow, I read most of this with my mouth open…I can’t decide which parts I find the most shocking. I think the part where she calls out other NSD’s is really eye opening. I also had no idea that Nationals were propping up their offspring’s with their own money. Naive I know, but it didn’t happen in my area.
I’ll bet Alison LaMarr is sorry she didn’t think of this counterclaim.
I didn’t know that NSDs were suporting their offsprings with their own money either. Has anyone else witnessed this.
The stories of NSDs cheating to get there are legendary. I was told that Donna Meixsell did exactly what is alleged in this filing. Kimberly Copeland (formerly known as Kimberly Walker Roop) was said to have done the same. I was told she had a garage full of inventory and would let directors come to her house occasionally to load up for free.
The stories of NSDs cheating to get there are legendary. I was told that Donna Meixsell did exactly what is alleged in this filing. Kimberly Copeland (formerly known as Kimberly Walker Roop) was said to have done the same. I was told she had a garage full of inventory and would let directors come to her house occasionally to load up on products.
Saw Kimberly Copeland do it first hand. She had inactive IBCs becoming Directors over night.
I had ‘help’ finishing. As a matter of fact, I still owe my former nsd about $300.00. If memory serves, I was about $700 wholesale short of making production at a crucial time in her NIQ. I paid her back all but the $300 when I discovered what I know now. I thought about the remaining $300 and and thought if she’s so damned successful and prosperous she can just eat the rest.
Can you return inventory and then pay her back the 300? Hehe…that would be mean I guess.
Maybe it’s me, but it sure seems that quite a bit in that response was taken from posts I’ve seen here recently; I think some of Raisin’s. The wording; everything. Funny how she knows where to go to get the dirty truth.
I don’t believe she will be successful. Corporations know exactly how to dot their i’s and cross their t’s so they can’t lose in court, but I’m glad there is so much bad publicitiy going on for MK. I”m hoping for the day that MLMs are shunned.
I wonder why Amy didn’t mention Karlee Isenhart in her lawsuit?
I am sure there are plenty of other names to name. I wonder how Mary Kay feels about the potential of those names becoming public. Seeing as Mary Kay likely knows all about this scam but has been turning a blind eye to it. 🙂
There are lots of other names. I know plenty. One in particular I’m thinking of put approximately $25K on her NSD’s credit card to finish the trip. Not sure if this particular director ever paid her back in full or not, but she has since declared bankruptcy.
I laughed that she mentioned Michelle and Gina, but also wondered why she didn’t mention Karlee. So this reply made me laugh harder.
I know this is an old thread, so I apologize for dredging this up again, but this hits WAY closer to home than the other stories. I was in MK when Amy joined, and was in many classes with her at different events. I was in the same room with her when Michelle chewed us all out because we weren’t driven enough to get her to NSD, because we didn’t work our businesses hard enough.
Michelle is as fake as they come. Karlee always seemed way more genuine to me. Maybe that’s why she wasn’t names in the suit.
Is this lawsuit story being splashed all over the Dallas media?
I’m rooting for her to win her lawsuit, but not win many monetary damages and have legal fees that bankrupt her. Or maybe for her to win and then her downline sue her so that she doesn’t enjoy one penny from her win.
And that’s the story. We learned how to “fudge results” as team leaders and team managers. We “wink wink” learned how to find those last 4,5,6 recruits at DIQ’s. We learned how to pull production and then “make production”- two entirely different things… and now why would we think that anything is different for NIQ and NSD? Please.
Open your eyes.
You know what we haven’t heard yet in the midst of all this? Take it away, Crayton Webb, Mary Kay’s “Director of Corporate Social Responsibility!”
“You know, we’re always sorry to hear about anybody who’s had a bad experience. But ultimately, there’s choice involved…a lot of women don’t start Mary Kay businesses because they want to make a lot of money…make that investment and make those choices. Find good mentors and run a smart business.” (Webb in the KERA interview with Virginia Sole-Smith)
Remember friends, GOOD mentors let you borrow their credit cards to finish out NIQ! 😀
I have been in Mary Kay for 20 years….. I love the product and truly believe my skin looks much younger than my age. I know through my experience of winning four MK “cars” I bought everyone of them, by purchasing MK product in other people’s names. Nobody twisted my arm to do it, many people knew I was doing it, because they were doing my orders for me. I did sell much of my product, but ending up giving tons away for free. Meetings were powerful, motivating, positive and actually fun, but I already was all of that before Mary Kay. I did change many women’s lives for the better. I knew I was not moving up in an honest way and was in debt way over my head. I am now in ISAGENIX. I suffer from severe fatigue and depression of losing my daughters son and husband in a plane crash. I have been on Isagenix products for three months and my fatigue and depression is less obvious and I have more energy and finally get up, get dressed and go places again. I am in the same downline as Amy Dunlap, and I was allowed to “buy” my way to free cars and directorship. I will never stop using my MK products, for the fact MK products truly improve your skin. But isn’t all this the same as anything in life??? It’s all about the money……When your making billions of dollars it’s easy to turn the other way, bend rules, break rules, the it becomes where dishonesty and ruing family lives doesn’t matter as long as the money is rolling in…..
Strongerinla,
Do you mean that you and Amy were in the same down line in MK? Were you from the same National Family? Who was your NSD?
Stongerinla,
Merely saying you’re now in ISAGENIX with Amy Dunlop is alright to give your post context. To attempt to promote the ISAGENIX products here as a solve for your fatigue and depression and energy improvement, well not so cool and inappropriate here on Pink Truth. NO MLMs are promoted here. NONE. Thank you
To be so cruel to someone who is grieving is inexcusable. This site is no different than the “cult” you claim to hate. Your behavior of insulting women who don’t think like you is identical. I’m outta here. Sorry for your loss Stongerinla.
strongerinla-
I’m glad you’re feeling better after losing family members. That has got to be difficult. But you would actually feel just as good, if not better, by eating a clean diet and by engaging in vigorous exercise than by taking Isagenix. Isagenix has a cleaner marketing plan than MK, but their products are all hype.
What do u mean by a cleaner marketing plan? And also what’s the difference and if there is a difference then how r they both MLMs just curious bc I don’t get??
“Cleaner” = not as complicated as Mary Kay.
Fun Fact: Mary Kay has a section of InTouch called “Meet Your NSDs.” Try as you might, you will not find naughty little girls like Amy Dunlap, Kimberly Walker-Roop (Copeland) and Allison Lamarr anywhere in that list.
While they’re at it, they may want to take a nice hard look at NSD Pamela Shaw, who’s hawking Beachbody products (and the opportunity to join) on her fitness website, and NSD Gillian Ortega, who’s on her son’s Solavei team. Her son’s website site offers a link and the offer to “Click here to sign up under Gillian H. Ortega!” Click and it’s off you go to Gillian’s page!
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s not allowed in Mary Kay per the NSD Agreement.
Kimberly Copeland is almost never listed in Applause under the commissions, either. I’m guessing her chargebacks make her checks less than $10,000, so they’re not included, but it could be punishment, too. I personally had a conversation with another NSD who was advising me to finish DIQ with made up Consultants. She said “everybody does it”, and she said all I needed were their Social Security numbers to make it happen. If I recall correctly, she had been in trouble with MKI prior to debuting as an NSD, but I was so determined to finish I couldn’t help but listen. I know another Director that took out a loan at her bank so she could requalify for her car and not lose it.
While I’m at it, Copeland is one of the Nationasl that need some serious makeup instruction. She’s a beautiful woman, but her color choices and attire are horrible in person.