1. Just like every other MLM’r – show your Schedule C and then we’ll talk .

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   • @cbbgreat She doesn’t have to. As a publicly listed company, their annual reports are publicly available online, and confirm that Pink was totally accurate and Denis is just talking MLM mumbo jumbo.

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2. If it has a pay structure liked an MLM, then it is one. Just you’re still under their influence. It takes a long time to realize when you’ve been duped and conned. Sounds like your repeating their lingo.
   I understand. Happened to me with MK. I was taught all the right things to say and I believed them too. But if it’s an MLM, where’s your profit? Prove that you’re making money and that it’s worth your time. Prove it to yourself. Otherwise, you’re regurgitating what they’re telling you. No one but the top makes money in an MLM. It’s set up that way.

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   • “But if it’s an MLM, where’s your profit? Prove that you’re making money and that it’s worth your time.“ –

     This is a very common question as well as asking to show your Schedule C. Most MLMers won’t show it because their numbers are indeed abysmal, and the question definitely serves the purpose of calling them out. This also goes for pointing out the income disclosures statements. But I got to thinking….

     Regardless of whether the income is good or bad, how the income is attained matters more. The income in MLM, low or high, is from pyramid scheming! What if the MLMer actually did show a profit on her Schedule C? That just means she is a successful scammer. I think all of us have gotten tripped up by this.

     Me: I had a stellar year in 2019….being a drug dealer. (Now 2020) But Your Honor, I made money! It’s right here on my Schedule C, and I even paid tax.

     Judge: And your point is?

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3. She says they’re vetted professionals, and also that they will “hire“ anyone who wants to try. So the vetting is obviously the sign-up fee, like every other MLM. A friend of mine who has done multiple MLM (a food one, Arbonne, Jockey for Her, a feminine pad/diaper one, Norwex, and more I’m sure) has been attempting Primerica for several years. She got off to a booming start and immediately became a Senior Advisor… by signing her husband under her. Since then her upline has stolen clients from her and ruined their friendship, so she’s right on track for the usual disappointment.

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   • About that “hiring anyone who wants to try”: they’ll even go after people who don’t want to try. Back in 2012 I was moving from NC back to my hometown, and was actively looking for a job there. I had my resume on a few sites, and I also applied for a few legit positions (and one I did take). One day during this time, I got a call from a man that I didn’t know. He was telling me about this “job” opening he had and kept pushing me to meet him. I kept asking for info about the job, including even the name of the company, which he strongly avoided telling me.

     Eventually he became angry at me for not just taking him on his word that this was a legit position for a legit company and finally, angrily shouted that the company was Primerica. I hadn’t heard of it until recently here on PT. So yeah, this guy must have been using resumes from a hiring site and then soliciting potential recruits that way. Definitely the “high standards” Denise went on about.

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     • I got an interview offer from Primerica after getting laid off and posting my résumé too. When I mentioned it to my advisor in the career center attached to the unemployment benefits office, he said I should think very carefully about whether I want to get involved in that one. I went to the interview anyway out of both curiosity and fear (would rejecting an interview offer get me accused of not trying to look for work?), and right after I left I never went back. Maybe I sent the interviewer a thank you email, but I don’t remember.

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       • Hold it, it might have been Ameriprise instead (this was a long time ago and my new job is nowhere near that industry). Either way, very sketchy.

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4. “We are hated in the industry because we can undercut everyone else – because we have the best for less.”

   My father was a Financial Planner for many years, I worked in the same office as him for a few years for the lady who ran her own insurance agency. They would both have clients who would bring in the offers they received from Prime America and both my boss & father would go thru line by line comparing the life policy the client had with either my dad or the agent and show them the differences. More often than not the client would keep the policy they already had. From the policies I have seen its really rappy coverage for a fair price. (Honestly your better off calling the the number from Alex Trebek commercials to get coverage.)

   I now work in a bigger town and am a fully licensed agent for auto & home in my state, I am studying for my life license. Our office does the same thing, with all policies, because that’s actually what insurance is about, its about keeping you protected and life insurance is a way to keep your family protected when you are no longer alive. At least 3 times a week we tell a customer we understand the price is lower and yes its good coverage, its up to you if you want to change companies, I get it you have to be able to afford paying bills and still be able to eat.

   There’s also something to be said about getting a life policy or really any policies from a local office/agent. The agents advocate for you if you are having issues with a claim,if you questions about billing, or coverages – most local agencies will send paperwork thru for you and have a record that it was sent & received, and when you call you probably don’t have to sit thru a 5 minute automated message and press a bunch of numbers to get to talk to a live human… Also most local agencies have less turnover of employees.

   Sorry its so long but insurance is my daily life, and yes its kinda a ponzi scheme, but our agency has had 2 total house fired this past year & thank goodness they had coverage, because both families would be bankrupt if not for their homeowners policies, and neither of them have had a claim for 20yrs. It’s a use it when you need it type of a business….

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   • Here’s what Primerica agents are notorious for doing: They take a whole life (cash value) policy or an annuity that a potential client has with a different company, and compare it with a term life policy with Primerica. The term life policy is waaaaaay cheaper because it’s a completely different product. But they don’t explain that. They say “buy term and invest the difference” and make it seem like the product they are selling is better.

     But the truth is that the whole life policy costs more because it has the investing component included. In other words, you’re paying more per month because a bunch of your money is accumulating as an investment.

     But they rely on the fact that most consumers don’t understand the difference in the products and don’t understand that the agent isn’t comparing apples to apples.

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     • As you state people need to know the difference between whole life and term ins. Purchasing whole life via an aerospace firm when I was younger has worked for me. The cost is low when you are young and over the years you build monies into our account. I am now at the point where the monies earned in whole life pay for 2/3 my premium. I am sure whole life costs are very high now, to start an account.

       Term life is best and all I would qualify for at this stage in my life.

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       • The thing I don’t like about whole life policies is that the rate of return on the investment portion is very, very conservative (read: low, very low), while the policy management fees are generally high and the agent commissions are also high. Good for the agent, not good at all for the buyer.

         If you want a policy that you buy young and hold forever without worrying about it, a whole life policy is probably the way to go. This assumes that the coverage you can afford is sufficient for your family”s needs.

         Term is popular with struggling young families because you get a lot of bang for your buck. In my opinion (for what it’s worth) the best move is to “invest the difference” in your 401(k). Over the long run you’ll be better off.

         I know no one asked for my opinion on this. You should make the insurance choice that is the most comfortable for you.

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         • Agree on the return-

           It is not an investment for me other than having a high value on the policy in the event of my
           untimely death, it provides an inheritance which gives me peace of mind to me.

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         • Also, that cash value doesn’t go to your family if you pass only the value of that policy, that cash value the insurance company get. So why get a whole life? You can do term at a low cost and invest the difference which your family can Inherit along with the value of your policy.

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5. Denise really checked off all the boxes in the MLM Apologist’s Guide, didn’t she? “We’re not like other MLMs, you aren’t in the business so you don’t know what you’re talking about, those who don’t make money aren’t willing to work, every company recruits, etc., etc.”

   But the best line has to be that only the pay structure makes it MLM. Well, yeah, and the only thing that makes the sky blue is its color, right? It’s ironic how close Denise is to seeing the truth without knowing it; most argue that all companies (and the “ebul gummint”) are pyramid schemes because of the shape of org charts. It’s the money flow that DEFINES a pyramid scheme, and it’s the money flow that makes MLMs product-based pyramid schemes.

   The arguments Denise gives are all thought-stopping cliches: turns of phrase that sound deep but are really half-truths or outright lies to make you dismiss your natural skepticism. “No one knows the heart” sounds like a reason to give everyone a chance, right? Except it isn’t the truth. Primerica takes near-zero risk endlessly recruiting; the pay is commission-only, so if the recruit is a dud, they are out almost nothing. Secondly, the commissions they pay are tiny compared to other insurance companies; the only way to earn a living wage is off a downline, so the majority at the bottom suffer. It’s easy to undercut the competition when you screw most of your employees over.

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6. It seems that mlm’s suck the life out of us. I must admit that I believed that MK and this company were concerned about my well being. How amazing to think my NSD, SD and other MK women were my friends and confidants. How wonderful to have all these caring women at meetings and to room with at Seminar. All those ladies with that “Go Give Spirit”. The songs, the heart felt “I” stories and the camaraderie just pulled at my heart strings. Sure there were moments of uncertainty and a sinking feeling. Most of the time I tried to over look that dread. It was little things. Training was not free. Directors quitting right after seminar. Products constantly changing at my expense. I got sick and struggled to afford MK. My husband and children hated MK. My NSD was narcissistic and cold. My SD had absolutely no empathy. Since I had become ill I had no choice but to return my product. I experienced withdrawal symptoms. What was I to do with myself? I missed the female unit members who had become friends. I missed the business. It was difficult to find a useful purpose. I was ashamed that I had been taken in by MK. I felt guilt and shame. It was difficult explaining to my husband that this so called opportunity was a fraud. How do you explain: gas money, dresses hair and shoes for Seminar, cost of seminar including travel, hotel and meals etc., being away from family, unsold products, the costs of advertising and Failed Open Houses or Trade Shows. MK had become a money pit with all other hidden costs for MK. Walking away was traumatic and like a form of PTSD. When I left it was really difficult to start over and find a new path that gave me a purpose. MK steals your heart and soul. MK and mlm’s make promises that can’t be kept. The destruction of lives one cut at a time is devastating. Lie by white lie I was drawn in. Little by little I lost myself. When I finally left, I was dazed, disoriented and sad. It took a while but I finally forged ahead and have a much better life financially and emotionally. My marriage also is based on truth and not on fabrications.

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7. I can speak about Primerica from first-hand experience, as a Primerica policy-owner, a Primerica representative, friend to Primerica representatives, and direct observer of their sales & recruiting tactics (they had an office in the building where I worked and used the common lunchroom for recruiting.

   The Primerica policies are not priced very well. You can get a much cheaper term policy from just about anywhere. By the time I realized this my husband had some medical complications that would have made life insurance expensive so I just kept the Primerica policy. But when he reach age 60 Primerica tried to automatically roll his policy into a significantly higher cost one, using the “no verified response from you means you agree” tactic. Fortunately I got the mail and actually read the fine print, so after going round and round with very aggressive sales reps I finally got them to halt the roll-forward.

   Primerica’s motto of “buy term and invest the difference” means the buyer spends the same amount of money each month, and puts the difference between the term policy cost and the original whole life policy cost into mutual funds. The problem is that the mutual funds they recommend are mediocre performers at best, and many have a high front-end cost (a “front-load”). The #1 mutual fund promoted to me was a contract fund with an astonishing 50% front-end load; 50% of whatever I invested for the first full year would have been taken from my account and sent to the rep as his commission! The remaining 50% would have been actually invested in my name, by a mutual fund manager who had a really bad track record of picking losing stocks. This came after the sales pitch where the rep kept saying, “the money you invest first works for you the hardest.” So why was he promoting a fund that would have taken half of the money I invested for a full year?

   Fortunately I read the find print before signing the Primerica mutual fund contract. I didn’t fall for it, and that mutual fund no longer exists.

   After leaving military service, I agreed to sign up to become a Primerica representative, because I still believed in the “buy term and invest the difference” slogan, as long as you choose from quality mutual funds. So I enrolled in the Primerica licensing program. What I found out later was that their program is an abridged licensing course which doesn’t get you a genuine insurance license. Primerica has an arrangement with various state insurance licensing agencies such that if you pass the Primerica exam you can ONLY sell Primerica policies. If you were to move to any other insurance company you’d have to take the full state licensing course all over again before you could get a real insurance sales license.

   Furthermore, you can’t get commissions on any “invest the difference” mutual fund sales with Primerica until you have a Series 7 Securities Representative license. Primerica won’t even consider letting you take the Series 7 course until you’ve established yourself as a good sales rep for their insurance products. Effectively, its like telling MK ladies that you can get the 50% portion of sales on lipstick and mascara, but all commissions on skin care products go to your Director.

   It gets worse. The Primerica insurance licensing course lasts about 3 months, and you won’t get commissions on any insurance sales made before you pass the exam. During those 3 months you’re paired with a “trainer” who encourages you to make “training” appointments with everyone in your address book. Supposedly, you’ll get the best training experience by making presentations to people you already know. But since you don’t have a license yet, all commissions on friends and family sales go to your trainer. You get nothing, except the nagging sense that you’re being exploited for some else’s gain.

   If your Primerica “trainer” times things correctly, you’ll run out of names in your address book just before you take the Primerica licensing exam, leaving you with no one to sell to and the “trainer” open to take on a new “trainee.”

   Finally, the Primerica recruiting is particularly deceptive. While in my office building’s lunchroom I watched Primerica recruiters exploit their prospects with their version of “everyone you know with skin is a potential customer.” Subsequently I hear the Primerica recruiter working the phone in the lunchroom, calling contacts named by the Primerica prospects to try to get them to come to a Primerica recruiting meeting. The scripts promoted a fabulous opportunity, associated with Traveler’s Group, but would specifically avoid mentioning the name Primerica supposedly to prevent prejudging based on incomplete information. However, all would be revealed when the mark showed up at the upcoming meeting. The remainder of the call was much like MK recruiting scripts.

   I’ll never again do business with Primerica, and encourage everyone else to also sever ties and shun them. My parting shot with Primerica was when I finally cancelled the old insurance policy. My DH was 60. They were trying to convince me to pay the much higher price for a new term policy, because he could roll it forward without a medical exam. I reminded the rep about their sales pitch: Invest the difference, so that when you reach retirement age you won’t NEED insurance. I told her we’d indeed done just that. We had assets and retirement income and no longer needed their policy. She told me that being in that position was unusual; despite Primerica’s “invest the difference” motto, few of their customers actually get there.

   That last comment told me all I needed to know about how well Primerica DOESN’T work.

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   • I NEVER usually comment, but there is so much wrong information in this post.

     First thing I’ll say is, I apologize for those who have had a negative experience and has been given wrong information. I’m currently a Regional Vice President and been with the company for over 10 years. I come across people that have had similar experiences.

     #1 – the mutual funds. Front end load is definitely not 50%. Not quite sure where that number came from. Maximum is 5% and as your account grows, it becomes less because of the breakpoints. The performance of the mutual funds depends on your risk tolerance, so if you are not comfortable with the market fluctuations, I wouldn’t put you in an aggressive fund. Dynatech fund (look it up) is one of my favorites from Franklin Templeton, but it may not be suitable for someone else with different goals or different time in the market. And it is not “Primerica’s” mutual funds, the companies that manage the funds are AXA, AIG, Franklin Templeton/Legg Mason, Invesco/Oppenheimer, Fidelity, etc.

     #2 – Life license. The license is definitely a state license that you can take to any other company and does not take 3 months. I have agents that complete licensing in 1 month and any licensed Primerica agent you can search on the state website for them. In Florida the governing agency is Florida Department of Financial Services (https://licenseesearch.fldfs.com). Yes, Primerica is captive, meaning, if you are an appointed agent with Primerica, you cannot sell life insurance with another agency, but that has nothing to do with the license itself. If you choose to leave and work with another insurance broker, you take your license with you and there is no test that you must take if you have already taken and passed the state exam. I got my Health Insurance License through Primerica and I was able to work with other brokers, Health isn’t captive.

     #3 – For your securities license (investment license), we get the Series 6, series 63 (that allows multi-state sales), Series 26 (supervisor over other agents’ sales), and Series 65 (Investment Advisor Representative-fee based service depending on how much you have to invest); not the Series 7. It is also false that you have to wait to be established as a good sales rep, there are offices that have their new reps get the life, series 6 and series 63 within 60-90 of becoming a Primerica rep; different offices run their business differently. Also, if your “trainer” does open an account for someone and you are not licensed yet, once you are licensed, all of those investment accounts are turned over to you for you to continue to receive the commissions. If a client opens an account for $200/mo, your trainer does not get a big payday, but once you are licensed and the client’s account grows over the years, you will receive the commission. (https://brokercheck.finra.org) You can find all securities license agents here as well.

     Yes, we teach buy term and invest the difference, but the agent should take a look at the client’s budget and put that together for the client. If they can only afford $100/mo, do a small policy so they have SOMETHING in place and get a small $50/mo investment going for them to get them started. It’s also about the follow up, over the years situations change, it’s our responsibility to build a rapport and help them over the years. That’s where the Financial Needs Analysis comes into play……….we help them put a plan together to pay down debt, restructure, we also are partners with Quicken and do mortgages. Clients who have a tight budget can take advantage of getting the license and being a part-time rep. Not everyone is full-time, not everyone recruits, some just want to sell and make a little money to bridge the financial gap.

     I had a family member pass away that was covered for only 4 months and Primerica paid with no issue. Primerica is a legitimate company, it’s just unfortunate not all agents will always represent us well. I also have clients whose investment have been growing well as well.

     Again, I apologize to those who have had a bad experience.

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     • The products Primerica sells are legitimate, they’re just overpriced compared to other companies.

       The single best reason to avoid Primerica is because it’s MLM and you should not financially support an abusive pyramid scheme.

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       • Primerica is not abusive, there are agents that don’t represent well.

         And we are not a pyramid scheme, we do not make money based on the “new” money a representative pays to begin the process of becoming a rep. Income comes from when business is done with an actual client for an actual financial product. You can receurit a million people and everyone gets a license, but if no one actually does business with a client, there is no compensation.

         “Multi-level marketing (MLM) is a legal business practice, but unlike traditional pyramid schemes, this model involves the sale of actual goods or services. BUT PARTICIPANTS ARE NOT MANDATED TO CLOSE ANY SALES. TO GENERATE INCOME, THEY MUST RECRUIT MEMBERS BELOW THEM” (I’m not yelling, just trying to highlight that portion because I can’t highlight or make bold) – https://www.investopedia.com/insights/what-is-a-pyramid-scheme/

         So it’s not necessary to recruit to generate income, we have plenty representatives that only do investments with clients, they do not recruit. If it’s the compensation and the structure of the compensation that people have an issue with, that’s fine, but the TRUE DEFINITION of Ponzi scheme/pyramid scheme/multi-level marketing is not Primerica.

         As far as overpriced, I have sat with clients and replaced their policies (term- apples to apples) and save them money. I’m not saying Primerica is the least expensive in every case, but there are individuals who have term and say “it’s less expensive”, but they have a 20 year term, but the PRI rep failed to explain the quote is for a 30 or 35 year term, which is more expensive. It’s the small details that people leave out.

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         • Yes, Felicia/Yvonne, Primerica is a pyramid scheme. All MLMs are pyramid schemes. If you don’t recruit people into Primerica you don’t make money. If your purpose is to sell products you’ll make 3 times as much selling products through a traditional agency/firm.

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           • Felicia/Yvonne?

             “All MLMs are pyramid schemes. If you don’t recruit people into Primerica you don’t make money.” This is your stance and you’re entitled to your opinion.

             I’ve stated facts so no need to go back and forth with you. At the end of the day an individual will choose the agency/firm that they feel fits them.

             Have a wonderful day Tracy 🙂

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             • Having been in a position for 10 years doesn’t make the business legitimate. The mob has many long-term position holders. 🙂

               I appreciate your recognition of negative experiences being valid experiences, I really do. But you wrote at length on issues that aren’t hotly disputed, it seems to me, while avoiding the essential element of Pink Truth’s existence, to uncover mlms/pyramid schemes no matter how heavily concealed.

               Your response reads like bury the reader with words, follow technical talk avenues to intimidate or confuse, and then state that you have proven your point, by which time the reader no longer cares. That’s not the writing of a true defense, in my view.

               I used to be impressed with Travelers Insurance until I learned of the Primerica association. It sucks because I could be needlessly eliminating a good company solely on the basis of a poor association but there’s no getting around the lack of trust i have in Travelers when they choose to associate with a business exploiting consumers.

               This sounds like an invitation to extoll the virtues and stats of Travelers, but its not. The ultimate result of that would be to ask “what might the difference be if they divested themselves of Primerica”, an unanswerable question, so no point in bothering.

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8. Yet another person who talks about karma without knowing what it really means.

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9. Ok I have to bite on this one. I work and make amazing money at a LEGITIMATE life insurance brokerage ( no schedule c as I have not yet filed, but happy to show anyone who wants to see it my bank statement, and the schedules C when I I do?) Primerica is a joke to other agents. They take 3/4 of a agents money- yes literally. Most agents make money on a formula like this: Monthly premium X 12 X compensation level. I started at 80% and am now at 105% a year later, and we max at 140%. Primerica starts at TWENTY and max out at 50%. And they say they are happy with Prim because ‘us other agents actually getting paid screw people with whole life’ Really? It tends to be your clients that feel as if they have been screwed when they turn 60 and their premium jacks up WITHOUT PROPER NOTICE into the several hundred dollar range. I have sold a replacement WHOLE life policy at every appointment that I ever found a Prim policy at, simply by showing them the ‘schedule of premium’ detailing the butt-rapery they will endure if they don’t. I have never heard clients spit so much venom toward a company as they do toward Primerica. Us agents actually making what they claim to make and more? We don’t spit venom. We just roll on the floor laughing. Primerica is indeed a financially strong company. Look at all the money they’re making screwing their own people as much as they screw their clients!

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   • “Primerica is indeed a financially strong company. Look at all the money they’re making screwing their own people as much as they screw their clients!“ –

     That’s what cracks me up about MK consultants touting the phrase, “MK is debt-free”. Well, no $hit with credit card charging, whole closet full buying consultomers like you.

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   • It tends to be your clients that feel as if they have been screwed when they turn 60 and their premium jacks up WITHOUT PROPER NOTICE into the several hundred dollar range.
     That’s exactly what happened to us. Thing is, the Primerica policy was sold to us with the pitch that if we “buy term and invest the difference” up front, we wouldn’t NEED life insurance at age 60. I was 30, DH was 35, our kids would be full grown before we reached 60, so the reasoning sounded right.

     But hey, when DH reached age 60 their tune was completely different. Suddenly the Primerica pitch was that we DID still need insurance, and we could keep DH insured without a medical exam, but their measly $150k term policy was now going to increase from about $100 per month to well over $350 per month. And what was all this about them AUTOMATICALLY renewing the policy at the higher price? Good thing I was watching the mail!

     About 10 years after we originally bought the Primerica policy, when I was 40, I went shopping for additional insurance on myself and discovered how much we were overcharged in the first place. I got a $500k policy on myself for $48 per month, and the premium will stay at $48 per month until I reach 65.

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10. There is a term that could be used for the original poster and others like her who write to pinkTruth—“MLM-splaining”. LOL

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11. agents from american express salary goes by sales? what???

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    • The OP is talking about American Express Financial Advisors, now known as Ameriprise. That’s a legitimate financial services company which sells a variety of life insurance products and investments. After Primerica I worked with them for a while also.

      Unfortunately, you don’t get very far as an agent for Ameriprise or any other legitimate insurance company if you don’t bring a large potential market in their door.

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