1. Does this mean there are now only 21 Elites in the whole company?! And only 310 with 3-4 offspring?! If that isn’t revealing to people, I have no other hope for them.

   Applause magazine numbers don’t lie. Titles on MK websites don’t lie. The color and make of car don’t lie. Just as much as success oozes, failure and weakness reek.

   Recruiting is how I got bonuses, promotions, invitations to events, and on and on. No matter what my sales were or those of the top Consultants in my unit, it’s true—you gain in MK ONLY when you recruit. 23% Director commissions come off most Consultants that weren’t even my own or were ever my customers, and that right there is proof our income was based in recruiting.

   Wow!

   14

2. I’ll probably get downvoted for this, but poor Jamie. She’s trapped. Bamboozled, manipulated, imprisoned, brainwashed and trying to make the best of her past choices. I hope she doesn’t lose her marriage over this, for how can she have a real relationship when she’s constantly lying and putting on an act that presents herself as helping others and genuinely succeeding? Unless she’s a sociopath or narcissist (not out of the range of possibility), her conscience has got to be gnawing her bones.

   Speaking of which…I wonder what percentage of NSD’s in Mary Kay are narcissists? I’ll bet it’s rampant.

   9 official criteria for NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder):

   1. grandiose sense of self-importance
   2. preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
   3. belief they’re special and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people or institutions
   4. need for excessive admiration
   5. sense of entitlement
   6. interpersonally exploitative behavior
   7. lack of empathy
   8. envy of others or a belief that others are envious of them
   9. demonstration of arrogant and haughty behaviors or attitudes

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   1

   • In regards to her marriage, I really wonder what her husband makes of all this. And if he regrets quitting his job, which he did in late March when she “made” NSD.

     7

     • He has started his own car detailing business!

       5

   • I would agree with this! I think a particular set of personalities make it to NSD. It seems like most of them are happy to stomp all over other women to get to the top, then continue to sponge success from those below them. That, to me, seems like it would either require a lack of empathy or a lack of insight.

     8

   • Yes, I feel somewhat badly for her, too. And the company’s silence on the matter makes it seem that they will allow these girls to be used as guinea pigs, knowing full well that they can’t build stable organizations in this manner.

     2

     • Yeah I feel sorry for her in the way I do my high school students. I teach those one step away from incarceration. They are misguided, lost and some just can’t care about the feelings of others and never will.

       6

3. “too much cheating”

   Not cheating, but “too much” cheating. LOL

   Question: How would MKC verify (If it wanted to) that someone “cheated” (violated the agreement). What types of evidence would it use?

   9

   • How would MKC know someone cheated?

     Well, it helps when they confess to it. In a video. Publicly posted.

     Cheating is rampant; MKC would have to be rock-stupid not to know. But if they strictly enforced the rules, no one would ever make NSD, and they can’t have that. So MKC looks the other way most of the time. But Jamie backed them into a corner with that video of hers. Desperate as they may be for new NSDs, I doubt they feel they can promote a confessed cheater to the top of the pyramid.

     12

     • “it helps when they confess to it. In a video.”

       Let’s say there was no video. HOW would it know? What would it track to expose “cheating”? Would someone have to squeal?

       2

       • Demand contact info for—and interview—recent sign-ups and “miracle” DIQs. That in itself will uncover fake sign-ups of family pets, resurrection of those who dropped out without cancelling their consultant number, etc. Then you have those who are real enough, but only signed on as a favor and have no intention of participating… at least one of them is liable to nervously spill the beans if they actually get a call from MK Legal. Most people aren’t comfortable with lying. They may be willing to keep quiet as long as no one asks, but if they’re on the phone with a lawyer, that changes the whole dynamic.

         Finally, reject all orders made by the NIQ on behalf of someone else by matching cc info to the supposed buyer.

         That should do it.

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         • Very interesting. Thanks for the response.

           2

     • They know people cheat when they do DIQ audit calls to new recruits. They’ve also had customers call and complain that they’re receiving literature and communications from MK when they’re not even in the company—all because someone signed them up and placed an order under their name. They compare credit card numbers with recruits and recruiters, and they’ll call new Consultants under a DIQ to probe and find slip ups where someone isn’t legit.

       The part that gets really painful is knowing MK doesn’t terminate all those people. There’s too many to do so! Morale would plummet if you saw droves of people getting kicked out, so MK weighs the benefits and has their legal team decide who stays and who goes.

       Just the facts!

       10

   • Every time an inventory order is placed with a credit card in the name of someone other than the consultant, MK should consider it cheating. There is almost never a reason for a sales director to use her own credit card to place a consultant’s order. Everyone’s got a debit card or a credit card that they could use if they were truly ordering their own products.

     Every time an inventory order is sent to an address other than the consultant’s, MK should consider it cheating.

     If MK applied a critical eye to everyone recruited in the last 3 days of each month, they’d see all the cheating right in front of them.

     13

     • “Everyone’s got a debit card or a credit card that they could use if they were truly ordering their own products.”

       Especially if they’re starting or running their own home-based “business,” right?

       6

4. She seems to like beating her head against a wall.

   4

5. Look at the dirt under the dresser omg!

   5

   1

   • I don’t think that’s necessarily dirt. The carpet nap looks darker because it hasn’t been trampled on, so light isn’t reflecting off the sides of the fibers, as it is in the adjacent traffic area. We have carpet like that, but it’s blue instead of brown, so the darker areas don’t look dirty, just differently colored.

     5

     • Yeah I thin you are right , it also looks darker by her feet (400 dollar Chloe sandals she unboxed on her stories right around when her husband quit his job) and it looks darker a few other places. I just think like you said it’s from the carpet fibers laying differently.

       2

6. Jamie’s IG is now private, and her website (jamievtaylor.com) is down. Something is definitely going on.

   11

   • It’s not private anymore.

     2

7. Jamie’s Youtube and Twitter accounts are also closed. Her Twitter might be old, but the Youtube thing seems pretty recent!

   7

   1

   • Interesting! I think her Twitter account still existed pretty recently, although she hadn’t posted to it in ages. I can’t find a public FB page for her now either, but I think she had one in the past.

     2

8. I will never actively wish failure on anyone, but I absolutely wish for cheaters to be held accountable.

   9

   • I will, but it depends on what they are doing. “Failure” is one of those words MLMers use to trip people up. For context, I wish failure upon a man who tries to rape a woman.

     I wish for all MLMers to fail for they must lie, or repeat lies, to succeed; and I applaud the MLM quitters who took the opportunity to get out of the scamming business. 😉

     13

9. I reconsidered my comment to be as fair as possible, and I’d like to add that while nobody in Mary Kay can become an NSD even if they’re the best salesperson in the entire company, companies outside of MLM might not promote their top salesperson into a senior position if that person can’t manage teams of persons below them, train, hire, etc. Some people are great at selling to others but not at managing others. But I think another way to describe NSD that still proves one cannot get there without serious recruiting DOWNLINES (which require recruiting by those below them as well) is this: nobody in MK can get to NSD by only recruiting a single horizontal line of super top salespeople who all remain IBCs. They still need to get some of their recruits to become directors AND some of these directors must also recruit (the whole “second line” requirement). Nobody in MK can even become a Director period based on product sales alone, and we know that this is still a minimum-wage position for the vast majority of Directors. So in MK, if you want to make more than minimum wage, you pretty much need to recruit. Still a product-based pyramid scheme!

   8

   • No one gets a commission check without recruiting. Not one cent. Not an $8 check for 1 recruit’s minimum order.

     I was in MK for over a DECADE, and I assure you there was more pressure to recruit than there was sales. More celebration when we recruited than selling thousands of dollars.

     10

     • BestDecision, wouldn’t it be fair to say you’re figuratively nobody in Mary Kay unless you’ve got several recruits under you? Like, you need to recruit to even wear the red jacket, and the red jacket is considered to be right next to bottom-rung, right? You can’t drive a Mary Kay car of any kind without a downline, no matter how much you sell.

       Sure, there are walks across the stage for “Queen of Sales*,” but that doesn’t get you the good food at the conferences.

       Am I wrong?

       * – read: purchasing

       4

       • Correct! It’s beyond commission checks. Your classes and teachers at events, pin, seating, seat covers, title, and more ALL vary based on having recruits and how many. We used to say Red Jackets (3+ team members) were Top 6% of sales force, and Directors were Top 2%. Can’t get a check or really anything without recruiting. No one remembers Court of Sales people unless you’re like the lady that was Queen every year, was awkward onstage, yet never recruited out of being just a Consultant.

         Search: Daphne Lewis.

         4

         • That sounds like Deanna Blue here in Canada. She isn’t a director, I’m not even sure if she has any consultants under her. She’d win Queen of Sales year after year, although one year she was trumped by a transvestite. She made MK her life, she does 3 appts a day, she’s single and lives with her mom. I used to wonder if her mom got sick of doing her little speech on stage every year saying how proud she is of Dear Deanna but the year she didn’t win, they didn’t go to Seminar so her mom got a break lol.

           2

           • Totally OT, but some of the best applied makeup I’ve ever seen is on or done by trans folks. Just impeccable. Maybe there’s a difference between growing up biologically female and being able and permitted to using makeup from our teens, even when we didn’t or don’t feel like putting it on, versus fighting to be recognized as female and thus finally being able to wear the makeup that you love (but perhaps spent years only wearing in private) proudly in public without question or criticism.

             1

             1

             • Lol, I know what you mean but this one, not so much. More like Dame Edna, not Jeffree Star.

               2

10. Out of curiosity, I looked Jamie Taylor up on the MK Consultant lookup thing. She’s still listed as a sales director. Ouch.

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