1. “My question for you is, have you yourself had an experience with Mary Kay itself? Actually become a Consultant, really read how it all started and why?” Let me turn that around on you and ask if you’ve actually read this site. The articles, the comments, the messageboard? Or were you just told “Pink Truth is bad and negative and full of people who don’t know what they’re talking about!” and you accepted that as truth?

   Because if you had, you’d see that most people here HAVE been in MK, some for decades. You’d find Cadillac drivers, Red Jackets, Court of Sales women, NSD trackers, who did everything the MK way and yet their pink bubble still popped. Did you ever stop to wonder why?

   “It is not the company’s fault that people are greedy and care more about themselves than for others (snip) especially in America, to be successful no matter what the cost even that of innocent people.”

   I’ve worked with the general public since 1998, and while it’s true there are jerks out there, on the whole the American public is decent and considerate.

   “[S]ome women actually work hard to make a difference in other womens lives… which in many cases means giving their lives away to make sure that the women they’re leading are indeed changing their lives for the better.

   What happened to removing the beam from your own eye before removing the speck from your brother’s? Are these women taking care of themselves, physically and mentally? Being good mothers to their children, good partners to their spouses, good friends? Because a mansion built on a swamp is going to sink regardless of how many
   Rolls Royces are parked in the garage.

   “This opportunity DOES work if people are willing to actually work. That’s true for this Company and any other.”

   No. It’s been proven time and again that the MLM system is doomed to failure because it depends on the constant recruitment of warm bodies, and there isn’t an endless supply of those. And other businesses can fail for a multitude of reasons, many beyond human control, no matter how hard you work.

   “There are still more testimonials of the positive impact this compact has had on women’s lives then there are negative.”

   I’m going to capslock this, not because I’m shouting, but because it’s really important: THIS IS BECAUSE MK ACTIVELY FORBIDS NEGATIVITY AND PUNISHES THOSE WHO EXPRESS IT.

   “And there has been billions of dollars sold in the past 6 years compared to the 3 million returned and I’m certain if the people who returned product had better recruiters or took it into their own hands to find out the truth of things instead of being quitters which is such a common thing to do, they would have probably found something positive about the experience.”

   Ah, yes, the inevitable “you’re just a bunch of lazy loosers and quitters!!!” victim-blaming that is the siren call of the Kbot. Please note, MK does not track retail sales to customers so that 3 billion dollars in annual sales (which I would like a cite for from a reliable source, not an MK one) is stuff being sold to the MK consultants. It has diddly-squat to do with what happens to it afterwards. The amount of returns is so low is because if you return your inventory, you’re blackballed from the company and many people are afraid to make that leap.

   “What other place in this world gives women the opportunity to dream and values them for who they truly are?”

   Lots. Places of worship. Hobby groups. Volunteer groups. Groups of friends. Real jobs that reward merit in tangible ways. If you haven’t found one yet, keep looking.

   “Just because someone else didn’t know how to paint the full picture (the honest to goodness picture) for them because of their selfishness does NOT make ANY of your claims about the Company as a whole true.” Sorry, hun, the numbers don’t lie. The scads of people who have posted here about their very similar experiences aren’t lying. And far from being “selfish” (victim blaming again!) they’re being selfless by putting themselves out there trying to help others who are having the same crisis of doubt that others are.

   “Any other day I wouldn’t have taken the time to even read anything on your site but reading websites like these on a bad day just really hit a nerve…”

   AHA! What made your day bad? What part of MK is getting on your nerves? If you were 100% happy with MK you wouldn’t go seeking out negative sites; they just wouldn’t exist to you. That inner disquiet is your true self trying to tell you something.

   Listen to it. Chances are you won’t like it and will try to deny it, but you’re hardly the first one to have those thoughts and you won’t be the last. When you’re ready to confront those thoughts, there are tons of nice people here who have been there, done that and will help you, too.

   20

   • English is my second language and her writing
     “ There are still more testimonials of the positive impact this compact has had on women’s lives then there are negative.””
     What the hell does mean?

     9

     • I think she mistyped. Instead of saying “this company” she wrote “compact.” Which I find a little funny since MK does also sell compacts.

       7

       • But MK doesn’t train the women LOL they are just there for collect money and send product

         4

         • For real! I love how they throw around “the company” as if MK Corporate is making all these decisions with the best interests of all the consultants in mind.

           2

2. This letter writer is so cute: “have you yourself actually had an experience with Mary Kay itself?” lol. It’s hard to take anything she says seriously after that. She has no idea who’s on here… former directors, former Senior Directors, former Cadillac drivers, and former Queens of Sales. I’ve learned a lot from them sharing their experiences. They’ve experienced things that makes the company look even worse than I thought it was based on my experience. Because there was a lot I, as a consultant, didn’t know but the directors and above knew.

   Also, I don’t have to “personally experience” being a victim of fraud or theft to know it’s a bad thing. I can see the numbers and the consequences to know it’s bad. 99% of people losing money in MK tells me it’s bad.

   15

   • “ She has no idea who’s on here… former directors, former Senior Directors, former Cadillac drivers, and former Queens of Sales.”

     Exactly. I really wonder Friday after fun Friday if our Critic of the Week ™ has any idea AT ALL that, while she types up her vague complaints on this site, her managers (SD, ESD, Future Whatever, Elite Executive whatever…it’s so hard to keep track of) are begging for sales, offering BOGOs, and making either minimum wage or slightly above it. But hey, she still apparently lives in a sphere where people bum rush every MK seller and pay full retail as they wipe out the inventory of every MK woman everywhere. Where’s that tiny violin, guys?

     1

     • “I really wonder Friday after fun Friday if our Critic of the Week ™ has any idea AT ALL that, while she types up her vague complaints on this site,”—

       I think I can explain the behavior and have seen it by some PTers themselves. Look how many people didn’t comment on yesterday’s objective history of the Earth and life-giving delusions. I often get an automatic downvote for focusing on math and science. Easy Examples: Women have the same number of ribs as a man. The Earth isn’t 6k years old and made in six days.(lol)

       They simply dismiss anything that isn’t inline with their cult teachings. They’re so indoctrinated that the new information doesn’t even penetrate the brain for comprehension; this may not even be intentional. It’s just subconsciously rejected as false, and not even maliciously. They are convinced what’s been preached into them must be true, even without supportive facts. And they don’t even bother to research; they’re that “sold”.

       It’s a case of, “Your in a cult, but my cult isn’t a cult, and don’t call it a cult” syndrome. Consultants think they’ve found a business, not a cult. Same for church-goers being fed the delusions. Have any of them bothered to search for scientific proof? Of course not. Enter that oh so convenient word “Faith”. Religion is a scam like MLM, but being a good, kind, giving person is not. You do not need one for the other.

       Watch the downvotes now. This is the equivalent to the Friday fanatic’s vagueness and letter. They’ll dismiss and dislike everything I just wrote because it goes against cult “beliefs” – just like fanatic’s Mary Kay beliefs. We are offending her delusions, but they ARE delusions and worthy of criticism. People don’t want to accept they’re delusional of course, so automatic rejection and offense taken.

       MLM and religion are closely related scams. Some MLM companies do have useful products, and some religions do some good. This doesn’t change the main scam method itself. Dream sellIng and paradise selling are the same thing.

       5

       5

       • I may regret starting this because the last thing I want is a back and forth “argument”.

         The misuse of makeup (or vitamins or soap, etc.) to perpetuate a scam does not make the makeup (or vitamins or soap, etc.) invalid or bad. In the same way, this misuse of religion to perpetuate a scam does not invalidate God. Since it’s scientifically impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God, I suggest it takes the same amount of “faith” to disbelieve as it does believe.

         Many scientists that have affected our world in tremendously positive ways were/are Christian. In fact, their study of science increased their faith in God.

         https://www.faithandphysics.org/scientists#:~:text=The%20vast%20majority%20of%20the%20great%20scientists%20in,Bernhard%20Riemann%2C%20Georges%20Lema%C3%AEtre%20and%20Lord%20Joseph%20Lister.

         Char, I always appreciate your passionate responses regarding MLM, but sometimes you sound like “science preaching against religion” and it is received by some the same way you react to “religious preaching”.

         Before you accuse me of putting my fingers in my ears because I don’t like you challenging my “delusions”, please remember, this forum is to be focused on MLM in general and Mary Kay specifically. When religion is abused to promote it, it’s fair game, but the fault lies with the abuser. This forum is not meant to be a debate page for science vs. religion, but I’m sure there is one somewhere.

         Again, Char, I mean you no disrespect and I’m not looking for a debate. Let’s just focus together on the purpose of Pink Truth.

         8

         • I think this is a great comment. MK works very hard to play the religion card in so many situations where it’s unwarranted (and makes me wonder if they could be sued for it or if the affected “staff” being independent contractors negates the issue). We can and should discuss how religion should not be abused nor misused in any workplace, and MK is a top target for our efforts to uncover and complain about it.

           But one can argue that religion has no place in any business, including MLM, without attacking religion itself. I could be a devout practitioner of a religion and be against how MK abuses religion; I could be a hardened atheist and feel the same.

           We can hate on the religion abuse that MK directors foster while not attacking the beliefs themselves.

           1

       • If I may, you’ve earned a new trademark:

         automatic downvote ™

         1

         • Not to be confused with The Ridiculous Downvote ™, though a vote could be both automatic and ridiculous.

           I think I just enjoy making the trademark ™ symbol way too much. But please just let me have my fun!

           (Lol this is how I party down in my old age.)

           2

3. Again,
   TL;DR
   (Too long didn’t read)
   Same old crap 💩 wash & repeat

   How y’all doing?

   10

4. Stuff like this is what really bugs me “And there has been billions of dollars sold….”

   They really truly believe billions (BLLIONS) of dollars of MK is sold. She ends up thinking – “I still have most of that $3600 in inventory in my room piled up that no one wants to buy. I must be doing something wrong because apparently everyone else is selling BILLIONS.”

   And when she eventually quits, she will absorb the “it was all my fault because everyone else was able to do it” (Just like they want her to think )

   8

   • And interestingly enough, my director told me as I was heading to line up for my Court of Sales walk that she had never done Court of Sales in the 20 years she had been with MK. But she always had a full “store” and all the new stuff every season. I still haven’t been able to figure that one out.

     7

   • Technically she is right. Dual marketing. Mary Kay to Consultant which comes landfill next

     1

   • I bet only a tiny fraction of that “production” has been or will be sold. Heck, even in my small West Virginia town, last year there was a (fairly expensive, as the owner was a doctor) house for sale and since I’m nuts about reading every real estate post here I looked at it, and when the photos got to the extra extra (yes that’s two extras) basement bedroom, the stacks of MK products were clearly visible.

     They didn’t sell it and when it was relisted, that bedroom was cleaned out, BUT in the garage pics I saw several MK boxes on a shelf.

     2

5. Ahhh… Fridays. =) Let me play “My Heart Bleeds for You” on the world’s smallest violin.

   (Been working a lot lately and took a mini vacay in there with the hubby, hence not being around.)

   9

6. Clearly, she has not read through the discussion board. Had she taken the time to do a little bit of research here, she would have understood that most of here were actual IBCs under a director who perpetrated the scheme, roping us in with lies of omission and commission.

   This writer must either be a newbie or related to a director. My guess is that there was a front-page post that landed in her google search for someone and she “found” us.

   13

7. And there has been billions of dollars sold in the past 6 years

   Do you have a source for this from somewhere other than MK?

   Even if billions have been sold, that number is coming from how much consultants ordered. MK DOES NOT track retail sales. Once corporate has their money from consultants buying product, they don’t track anything. Most of that product is sitting in boxes in garages or basements.

   7

8. emersed 🤣 Is that like “facialed”?

   6

9. Bless your heart. We’ll save a seat for you.

   6

10. My question for you is, have you yourself had an experience with Mary Kay itself? Actually become a Consultant, really read how it all started and why?

    I personally haven’t but I suspect I’m in a minority of one. However, I can read and am capable of interpreting facts and figures as well as extrapolating results from
    what information I have been able to access.

    Just because some Directors and/or Consultants are not true to the Companies mission because they think their way of doing the business or that making the money fast even if it means taking advantage of people is the way to go does NOT make any of your claims true.

    So, basically, if some-one scammed you out of your money and time, it’s your own fault. Because it’s not true otherwise.

    I just don’t understand why this critic thinks this way. Our claims are false because other people are abusing the system?
    But it’s just fact-twisty victim blaming, at the end of the day.

    Or are you basing this whole website on people who unfortunately had a terrible experience with the Company?

    If it was just one person, you’d have a point, misguided but still. Yes, it’s based on the lived experiences of many, many people who have had terrible experiences with MK and other MLMs.
    And it’s not unfortunate, the game’s rigged.

    It is not the company’s fault that people are greedy and care more about themselves than for others. Unfortunately, thats true for any company in this world because, unfortunately, that’s what we’re all raised up to do, especially in America, to be successful no matter what the cost even that of innocent people.

    But isn’t MK supposed to be better, God first, not greed. It just sounds like MK is a dream for a psychopath.

    Fine, what the people who have shared their stories had to go through is not right, but neither is wasting your time away bashing on the entire Company when some women actually work hard to make a difference in other womens lives… which in many cases means giving their lives away to make sure that the women they’re leading are indeed changing their lives for the better.

    Wow..such empathy. And victim blaming.
    And thanks for being concerned about how I spend my time. It’s really none of your concern but I estimate that I spend around two hours a week here, Friday being the busiest day. That’s less than I spend reading a day.

    How does Chels and Jaime begging for drinks money make a difference to their down-lines lives? I can’t see how drinking expensive cocktails changes some-one else’s life for the better.

    This opportunity DOES work if people are willing to actually work. That’s true for this Company and any other.

    And yet, the company’s own figures show otherwise. As do those of many other MLMs. And the FTC.

    There are still more testimonials of the positive impact this compact (sic)has had on women’s lives then there are negative.

    Maybe. But I doubt it. We have repeatedly asked for MKbots to prove with their tax documents that they are making bank. But I suppose that you personally can measure success on a different and less tangible scale if you want to.

    And there has been billions of dollars sold in the past 6 years compared to the 3 million returned and I’m certain if the people who returned product had better recruiters or took it into their own hands to find out the truth of things instead of being quitters which is such a common thing to do, they would have probably found something positive about the experience.

    And the victim blaming continues to pour in. Hurray for those brave enough to stand up and say “No More!”. I love an empowered woman, not one being pressurised to hide her own doubts and fears behind a mask of “Being Positive” and “Staying Sweet”.

    I really don’t believe a website like this encourages people, ok, so they feel better that there are people out there that can relate to them and then what?

    I feel differently. We do encourage people, especially women who are feeling lost and confused. They were sold a dream and it turned into a nightmare.
    Yes, they feel better that they are not alone. We can offer them help that their up-line isn’t willingly going to admit. We won’t talk about them behind their backs as “lazy loosers”. Then, we can try to support them as their MK support system forgets about being there for others.

    What other place in this world gives women the opportunity to dream and values them for who they truly are? So far I haven’t found another.

    You must be looking in the wrong places, then. If you are religious, then your place of worship generally has women’s meeting, scriptural studies, volunteering amongst the congregation, helping the older members, those with disabilities, or young mothers with any support. Local charities love new faces. Maybe start your own NGO because you’ve noticed a gap in the network. Take up a hobby or a sport. Get a real job. Attempt to make a friend without trying to sell them anything.

    Just because someone else didn’t know how to paint the full picture (the honest to goodness picture) for them because of their selfishness does NOT make ANY of your claims about the Company as a whole true.

    The picture painted by Chelsea’s selfishness would put Hieronymus Bosch’s works to shame. Her “Garden of Earthly Delights” would truly be a masterpiece.

    And if you haven’t tried the business and truly been emersed (sic) in what we do and stand for than you’re not qualified to state any claims at all.

    You are talking to women who have been active at high levels. Please read some more and then come back and point out everything that Tracy et al have wrong.

    Any other day I wouldn’t have taken the time to even read anything on your site but reading websites like these on a bad day just really hit a nerve, because the day that someone from a site like this is talking about how one company is a ‘fraud’ but they’ve come up with something better which is REALLY impacting women’s lives for the better instead of giving them yet another place online for them to feel sorry about themselves and gossiping about others, then maybe I’ll consider it.

    It hit a nerve because you’re starting to see the dark underbelly. And you’ll keep coming back when you find something else that doesn’t feel right.
    And Pink Truth isn’t the only place which talks about how MK and other MLMs are not all that they pretend to be. One of the oldest, definitely.

    Certainly the one your director warns you about. But, you’ve broken out of her control once. It wil be easier in time.

    9

11. “ some women actually work hard to make a difference in other womens lives… which in many cases means giving their lives away to make sure that the women they’re leading are indeed changing their lives for the better”

    What the hell does this even mean? Giving their lives away…do you mean taking on tremendous debt in the name of sharing the opportunity? Or putting career first, so far ahead of family that there is no room for family in your life? This just sounds ridiculous. You will not see anyone writing such a thing about a normal J.O.B. Unless maybe it’s about a dangerous job like first responders, law enforcement, military, etc. But those workers get paid for their time spent working.

    9

12. I can honestly say… I’ve experienced the “Full MK treatment” from start to finish. From my MIL recruiting me, being the ‘starry-eyed’ new consultant 2 months later at my 1st seminar, being indoctrinated constantly to become a sales director as fast as I could (including being encouraged to put off starting a family until that goal was reached- thankfully that didn’t happen.) BUT becoming a sales director with small children was equally difficult and maintaining that level was every more difficult. Going to director meetings with my local NSD and experiencing her “tough-love” pep talks which makes you feel like you’re just a few inches tall if you’re not a super star. (and having the privilege of paying for those pep talks on top of it!) I’ve experienced the love-bombing and the shunning.. and I’m very embarrassed to say- I’ve participated in that as well…. it was expected to keep the rank and file in line. When I left MK- to those who were still in…. it was like I didn’t exist. It was hard- because my identity had been sooo wrapped up in all things MK, it was a huge loss to my self esteem. I joined MK in 1993, became a director in 2002. Left directorship in 2009, and finally terminated my consultancy a few years after that…after I had sold off as much of my over inflated inventory and paid off my credit card debt. I should have returned my inventory- but my director/recruiter was my MIL, and if I wanted to try and preserve that relationship as best as I could and I was afraid if I returned inventory- that relationship would have been damaged beyond repair.

    I’ve experienced the “Full MK Treatment” from start to finish- and I have to say… I’m better off today out of MK (in all aspects of life) than while I was in MK. My conclusion- Mary Kay is a product based pyramid scheme- with a lot of cultish tendencies.

    12

    • A company that promotes family over career and then encourages women to delay having children? It’s all about priorities. SMH

      6

      • No, no, no, Jan. The COMPANY doesn’t pressure women to delay having kids. That was just that one sales director. And she’s a bad apple. Unfortunately, can’t do anything about her. Independent contractor agreements and such. You understand, I’m sure. /s

        7

13. “…unfortunately, that’s what we’re all raised up to do, especially in America, to be successful no matter what the cost even that of innocent people.”

    Really? We “all” are?
    Well, I wasn’t.

    5

    • In a free market, the buyer and the seller agree on a price that is good for the seller (to cover the seller’s costs + profit), and good for the buyer in terms of perceived value. It’s a win-win. Healthy companies and sales folks care about their reputation as they strive to build a customer base, seeking repeat customers who actually choose to buy from them instead of from the competition.

      The perceived value of the product can be influenced by effective marketing and/or exceptional customer service, which can convince buyers of a greater value of (and thus willingness to pay a higher price for) the product. Yes, some sales-folks will also try to overstate the value of a product to get higher margin for a product from the customer (used-car salesman anyone?). But good sales folks don’t want their customers to feel they’ve “been had” or “ripped off”.

      There is a class of sales organizations that deliberately mislead the buyer into believing things that are not true about the product. These folks do not care about their reputation, and are not interested in repeat customers. They want to get the greatest margin from every transaction, knowing they will only be selling to one-time customers.
      These folks are known by many names (Hucksters, Peddlers, Hawkers).

      Mary Kay falls into this latter category. They want reps who make a big purchase, then move on. The Mary Kay system was never designed for repeat customers. Few, if any, can afford (or are foolish enough) to make a $2000 inventory purchase more than once. The optimal pattern in Mary Kay is to sign a consultant with a huge inventory purchase, coach them on recruiting their own replacement consultant, and hope they go away without returning their inventory.

      So how do they keep these consultants from feeling they’ve “been had”? Victim blaming of course. If you can convince your customers to blame themselves, instead of you, they won’t bad-mouth you or the company. They will just take ownership of their mistake and move on.

      MLM companies like Mary Kay have taken decades to perfect all of this. But the con is real, and potent. Mary Kay is placing billions of dollars worth of inventory into the homes of consultants with very little of it actual making it into the hands of end users of the products. All while convincing the folks at the bottom of the pyramid that it is their own fault that they lost money. This in spite of the fact that these losses at the bottom are an integral part of the corporate business plan, such that the company cannot survive without such losses.

      So who, exactly, cares more about the “cost to innocent people?” OP will have you believe Mary Kay cares more than traditional companies. In reality, traditional companies want repeat customers, and thus are very careful not to anger their customer base. MLMs like Mary Kay, on the other hand, are directly profiting at the “cost to innocent people”.

      5

      • “In a free market, the buyer and the seller agree on a price that is good for the seller (to cover the seller’s costs + profit), and good for the buyer in terms of perceived value.”

        Ah, this reminds me of the Kaybot who was selling a full lot (I refuse to break it up!) of old MK inventory from her basement or wherever, and she set a price (I think it was $1100 for the lot but I might be way off) BECAUSE that was the amount she still owed on her credit card. (The link and or photos were on the PT board recently.)

        Commence the lulz!

        So basically, “I need someone to buy the entire lot, and I expect them to pay the amount I owe on my credit card from buying it.” I’m not familiar with eBay so I don’t even know how to look up whether she’s still got it for sale; maybe one if you savvy online detectives might find it?

        TL;DR for the MK lurkers: A previous IBC bought more product than she could sell as an IBC, and she is now trying to sell her piles of old makeup for the exact amount of money she NEEDS/WANTS regardless of what buyers might actually pay for it…and this action on her part denotes a lack of understanding of the basics of sales.

14. “have you really read how it all started and why”? Yes, I have. It started because Mary Kay felt she had been shafted by the companies she had worked for and wanted a company where she would be at the top. She and her sixth husband, George Arthur Hallenbeck, (usually identified as husband number two) had planned out the business model, then selected a product and were preparing to launch. Hallenbeck dropped dead at the breakfast table in 1963 after a very short marriage, providing a dramatic incident in the founding of Mary Kay’s cosmetics company.

    8

    • Absolutely Lazy… it was ALL about her… and her need to be at the top. Her need to feel important, her need to be idolized. Sadly- she succeeded. It all boiled down to her selfish pride.

      4

      • and THAT is what is being perpetuated today… her selfish pride. That need to succeed at all costs, that need to be on stage getting whatever stupid ribbon or award. That need to lie/ deceive others to get ahead, etc. It’s all selfish pride. I will admit- I wanted all of what was shone to me- I didn’t recognize it for what it really was until much later- then it just disgusted me.

        8

15. If this person’s experience in Mary Kay was so great, she needs to tell us how much MONEY she made last year and how much she is on track to make this year – profit, that is, not gross sales. Nobody knows who she is, so what’s wrong with indicating how much money she made with this. If she wants to send us a Schedule C tax form (that’s the form for self-employment income) with her name and Social Security number blacked out, even better. But it never happens. The pro-Mary Kay people who post on this site NEVER have an answer when asked how much money they made from their Mary Kay “business” after all expenses, even though they are completely anonymous. The silence from that alone is just deafening. Well, I give them kudos for not lying as well, I guess. But every time a Mary Kay “consultant” gets asked how much profit they had from their business, there is never an answer. Just like Amway and every other MLM scheme.

    6

    • “If this person’s experience in Mary Kay was so great, she needs to tell us how much MONEY she made last year and how much she is on track to make this year – profit, that is, not gross sales.”—

      Yes, net profit from sales, not endless-chain recruiting. If she submitted a Schedule C, non-affiliate retail sales must be separated out. I have zero interest in learning how much she made from pyramid scheming.

      3

16. Gee, I think we scared off the Ridiculous Downvoter ™. All these negative posts and not one thumbs down!

    4

17. “……when some women actually work hard to make a difference in other womens lives… which in many cases means giving their lives away to make sure that the women they’re leading are indeed changing their lives for the better.”—

    If that were the case, the women would be volunteering. They would not be profiting off the women they are supposedly helping.

    3

18. Emersed? WTF. Immersed

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