1. Sunscreen:
   http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/health/jan-june11/sunscreen_06-14.html

   http://www.packworld.com/news-31939

   Serious changes to label requirements, and also testing required to back up claims.

   I LOVE the new fangs the FDA has grown.

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   • Speaking of labels, why aren’t product ingredients and expiration dates printed on the container? For that matter, why aren’t expiration/manufacturing dates printed in conventional numbers instead of a code?

     2

     • Christy, it’s my personal opinion that the manufacturing “codes” are in code to prevent the consumer from knowing just how old the product is. You hear stories all the time on here that consultants have tons of product in their homes, basements, etc., that they’ve had for years! When they couldn’t sell them, they would often give them away in gift baskets or as hostess gifts. Some stuff on eBay and Craiglist is very old – you have to know what you’re looking for to make sure you get fresh product – not all product online is old, but I’ve seen some stuff advertised for sale that are close to a decade old, just by the design of the container and package. Imagine the surprise a customer might have, if they realized their “product” was years old and had been collecting dust on a consultant’s shelf. MK wouldn’t know what to do with all the returns as a result. It’s deliberate on MK’s part in my opinion to conceal the exact date of manufacturing by using codes no one can understand. I never knew until joining PT, how to interpret the manufacturing codes. All of the product I purchased in Jan 2008 in my initial inventory as an IBC was at least 18 months old! I discovered this when I went back and looked at the manufacturing codes, after learning how to read them. It’s shameful as far as I’m concerned. I also agree the ingredients should be on the container, not just the box or wrapper.

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2. Tranquil Waters came out as a shower gel and perfume pencil(?) this summer.

   2

3. About flippin time they caught up with their overseas lines. They have had this product in their Asian Pacific Market for YEARS and it is supposedly way better than the classic basic (probably better than timewise too). When I was a SD I kept hoping for this product to come here, a little too late though. Not buying it now.

   2

   • No matter when they do it, it is always a significant burden to the consultants. The company always profits, but the consultants are screwed. Even if it IS a better product, there is no denying it hits consultants hard.

     And of course, this is one of the many reasons MLM sucks so bad. Yes, real retailers have to carry inventory and bear the costs of product changes. But they’re REAL RETAILERS who can make a living retailing the products. MK consultants are not retailers. They are tiny fish in big ponds, with no hope of selling enough product to make a living. So the change in products hurts them much more dramatically than it would hurt a real retailer.

     And did I mention that MK benefits substantially each time they change products?

     1

     • I agree that a lot of the product changes are completely senseless and not done well ( especially when directors do not tell the consultants until the last minute). But, this skincare change should have happened a LONG time ago.

       1

4. Imagine the poor consultant who comes in at Christmas with a full store of old product and one month later is hit with all of the changes. It breaks my heart. Do you think any SD is going to let her in on that little secret? Do you think she’s going to say, “Just order a little bit now because next month we have some big changes!” She’s willing to sacrifice some poor woman’s credit in order for her to make production for that month. it’s sickening, isn’t it?

   2

   • I had this happen to me too. That’s why for my 40th birthday, I sent that garbage back. I lost more money than I ever made, but it was worth it to get that check back in the mail and not have to be bothered with MK anymore.

     2

5. This is what sent my credit card debt up into the atmosphere. Only for me it was the compact change from pink square to pink oval. Not only were the compacts obsolete, but so too was every stinking blush and eye shadow color. But I had to get them right? Because MK also discontinued the marketing that supported the old shape. That product wasn’t flying off the shelves as it was. I didn’t MK sabotaging my efforts.

   That was the beginning of the end for me, the new compact shapes, plus all the Limited Edition. I just couldn’t keep up.

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6. Just for the record, if I knew a product was going to be changed, I made sure of it that the product was not included in her inventory. Not all sales directors are created equally

   4

   • Imewise, I’m with you. When the lipsticks were changing over, I specifically would tell my unit members AND their new recruits to hold off on that- sell what they had, trade to get the colors they needed – until they could get the new ones. I hated it when that originally happened to me- and vowed I’d never do that to someone else. I agree- not all SD’s are created equal. 🙂

     2

     • I’m with you Imewise and Oneless, I always gave my unit members a heads up on impending changes and all of the “top secret” briefings as well.

       I hope the little old ladies do boycott Mary Kay when they take away their Gentle Cleansing Cream and Enriched Moisturizer! 😀

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       • I’m one of those so called little old ladies that uses the Classic Line. My director is also very good at letting me know what is comming down the pipe. I struggle but love to help people out. I also was able to demo the new Botanical Effects. One week in and I am one happy old lady!!! Using the dry formula, incorperated with the day soulution, night soulution and night recovery restore. Change is good.

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       • I’m a ‘little old lady’ who was a BC in the 80’s and have used MK ever since. Now I have to try and find a substitute for Creamy Cleanser, at the very least. I can’t stand the Timewise. Why is it Timewise and helpful when it dries your face out? Helloooo…. When I notice NEW wrinkles I’ve never had after two weeks of using the new TW collection, I am OUT, baby.
         I’m here because I’m googling to find out if the Botanical Effects is the same, (basically) as the old Basics line…. or close. Thank you, I hope someone can educate me because obviously MK thinks I’m stupid.

         LOL!! Just kidding. But it tees me off, quite honestly.

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7. I can tell you one thing about this messing with the Classic Basic Line- they are going to piss off so many older ladies that have been using that formula for years. They are going to have a revolt on their hands.

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8. Thank you Pink Truth. I suffer at times from short term memory loss or selective memory loss. You reminded me why I stop MK the first time.
   I’d get someone on a product that they truly liked, next thing you kknow I can’t get it for them any more! And that was within the first month of getting into MK. (That was about 10 years ago, before you guys existed to let me know what was going on.)

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9. I is one of those little old ladies. Been using MK for almost 35 years (classic basic F3). Almost died when I read they were discontinuing the classics until I saw they were leaving F3.

   Now I wonder why that is. Simply put: it’s the only thing that works like Comet. If they ever announce it’s demise, I’ll buy a boatload of it.

   I was a consultant 3 times. Gulp! Many reasons for that.

   I’d still be a cons. but I really resent the ‘order evey quarter’ rule to remain ‘active,’ or the fear of losing the discount.

   I’m always so tempted to resign just for convenience of not having to drive to my cons. house to get product when it’s available. And then I get a hold of myself. Just don’t want the headache of keeping the paperwork anymore.

   2

   • Trigger – Order it from eBay and you can get it shipped right to your house.

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     • YES! EBAY! anything I had to cancel credit cards for autoshipping was too difficult to stop, I now buy Proactiv and Wen from Ebay, Sensa and Alli. And yes, I will admit I did buy Vanilla Sugar Satin hands…for $15 w/ free shipping.
       I love ebay!

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     • YES! EBAY! anything I had to cancel credit cards for autoshipping was too difficult to stop, I now buy Proactiv and Wen from Ebay, Sensa and Alli. And yes, I will admit I did buy Vanilla Sugar Satin hands…for $15 w/ free shipping.
       I love ebay!

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       • I also checked on Amazon and you can get MK products there as well.

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   • here’s what i do to get the discount. unless it’s changed, you really don’t have to order more than twice a year but i just get all my friends to order with me (i use the look books to let them know when it’s time) and then give them all a 35% discount on what they order. i let them know i’m only ordering every 6 months so plan ahead. it works for me. i get a little for my time and gas and still get my discount. i call it my mary kay co-op

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10. Sorry to jump on so late to this thread. Amen to whoever said eliminating Classic Basic will tick off ladies who have been wearing these products for many years. I foresee the Company losing many, many very longtime MK users. Most of them do not use Formula 3, and lots of them look great for their age. Personally I have never liked Timewise and so I have a hard time recommending it. (The only advantage to me is that it’s a two step process.) And I find myself using more and more non-MK products.

    Don’t even get me started on the ridiculous number of changes to the lip gloss. What is the big deal with the lip gloss? I sold more when all we had was Natural and Pearl.

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    • 15yrs, are you still with MK, or did you do 15 yrs and run? I “just” placed my first order on the 17, and am so upset to find the classic is being done away with. Why? Because Timewise leaves my skin with a chemical burn. No joke. I used the basic line as a teen and had some luck with it. I thought I would invest in that again. I hope the “new” line is okay, but still, I just bought the classic set. I’m about $500 into MK at this point. That sum includes starter kit that was reduced price, my first order, money I gave my sister to purchase some of her older product, the personal MK web site, and business cards. I hope I’m not making a huge mistake! I have already found myself thinking I would never make all my money back, and I’m not even in that deep yet.

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11. Just got a call from my cons. telling me they are now discontinuing all the Classic Basic Formulas, including F3. I about had a wreck (I was driving.) I ordered a dozen of the F3s. She said they will offer it once each year in January – What?????

    A new tactic to get us to order more? I wouldn’t put it past MK corp. to come out with a scheme like this.

    Hello, Ebay?? This is your mother speaking. Listen up.

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    • More like a way to keep making a product that has a relatively small demand, so they can make a few batches and switch the line to something else.

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    • I’ve bought some Creamy Cleanser For. 2 on Ebay and/or Amazon but — gee whiz, I KNOW I’m buying old product! I’m paying through the nose still — FOR OLD PRODUCT!!

      Anyone know of any great cleansers similar to Formula 2? I AM DONE WITH YOU MARY KAY. Mary Kay would roll over in her grave!!

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      • You may want to try googling Paula’s Choice. I don’t know a good dupe for the Classic Basic line, but on her website she sells good products and honestly reviews all brands – even recommending brands that aren’t hers! That might be a good place to start finding a replacement cleanser. Good luck.

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        • Thank you PinkPhoenix!

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12. P.S. Said above cons., she is afraid she is going to lose many customers as she lives in a retirement community and has had some cust. for more than 25 years. They all use the CB formulas. Ouch. They hate the TW stuff.

    Honestly, it’s not nice to piss off the little old ladies. Really, it’s not.

    What is happening to MK??

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    • They don’t care about you trigger…you are small beans compare to new recruits who need to get inventory. No consultant, other then maybe yours, ever kept the basics in inventory. I was taught to steer customers returning to MK to timewise and to discourage the basic system. They don’t care about YOU they care about $$$.

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    • Yep!!!! what is happening to MK??? They are not out there for the public and just don’t listen anymore. They have lost sight of the Mary Kay Golden Rule and I no longer and for some time now, trust the company. Pity, they have a wonderful product.

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13. In spite of what my recruiter (who himself is trying to become a sales director) has said during my almost-year in MK, I took our mutual director’s advice and got to know my market before ordering my inventory. This advice has saved me a tremendous amount of money and a trip to the credit union (not that I could take out a loan anyway due to my lack of credit!), as I only ordered product for myself, demo inventory, and product my customers wanted at that time, usually enough to keep me active. However, if something was discontinued, I would inform my customers and offer them an opportunity to choose an alternative product. Also, I’ve ordered samples for customers who have requested them. (Fragrance has been very popular among my market, so many fragrance samples have been ordered.) It is incredibly difficult to upsell (yes, there is some unused/unsold inventory due to order cancellations), especially in this tight economy, so to those people who decide to become consultants, I definitely recommend getting to know your market first, in spite of your recruiter or director’s advice.

    Yes, I will probably get a lot of smack for my comment and/or get condemned for not “working my business,” but I’m not trying to seek approval for my business choices anyway. (One of these business choices is writing a novel that revolves around a fictional direct-sales cosmetics company, for which this site and my own experience have been wonderful resources.)

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14. I’m just curious- why do some of you still use the products given the view you have of the company? There are so many other wonderful options out there! My mom was one who had burns from timewise- so sad. I used to be a consultant- twice actually. Each time, I knew there was something not quite right, but couldn’t put my finger on it. I use almost all ‘crunchy’ stuff now with much better results.

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    • I’m slow. “Crunchy?” I also can not use the timewise line due to chemical burns on my skin. My SD told me she was sorry to hear that, then went on to tell me that MK has only perfect products that do what they claim. Uh…say what?! I had red-purple welts on my face from the stuff. I don’t know how THAT qualifies as a perfect product.

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    • I use the product because it keeps my oily skin under control, and I’ve used it for years before I even became a consultant. (Though now I can get the product at cost.) I’ve tried other brands, mainly those designed to work with oily skin, but they didn’t work as well — that is, if they even worked at all. I also like that the products are not tested on animals, as I’m firmly against animal testing… and I’m a vegetarian, not that this tidbit has anything to do with the product itself.

      Which Timewise formula did your mom use? Normal/Dry or Combo/Oily? My mom had some sensitivity to the Combo/Oily, even though she, too, had oily skin, but she found that the Normal/Dry worked better for her. (Normal/Dry is a gentler formula than Combo/Oily.)

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    • Erin, please tell me what these wonderful options are! I am serious, I am looking!

      34 year customer.

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15. What is ‘crunchy’ stuff???

    The only thing left of the original line (I believe) is the Extra Emollient Night Creme. I use it on my hands only in the winter. Love the smell. Takes me back to when I first got in – around 1930 I think. Ha ha, just kidding. Some days it feels like it. I have a jar I bought in ’03 and I’ve barely scratched the surface. It’ll last till God comes back.

    Why do we still use it? The Classic Basic was/is good stuff. THEY DID NOT NEED TO IMPROVE ON IT.

    I started using some BeautyControl recently. Broke out like crazy. Never had that with MK. Also, if you think MK has too many products for the face, you won’t believe BC. After 3 months I still can’t figure out the order of app. Geez, just give me a cleanser, a basic moisturizer, and let’s call it a day, already.

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    • ^^^ LIKE ^^^

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16. And, Erin;

    MK products are inanimate. They are neither positive nor negative. The products themselves have nothing to do with the teachings of MK by higher-ups.

    The Classic Basic System is top-notch. New technological changes do not always mean improvement.

    I don’t have a problem wth Classic Basic Cleanser Formula 3. But I was very surprised at the reaction I got by just asking my up-line about PinkTruth years ago.

    I can separate the two.

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17. In my opinion, it doesn’t matter if the CB line is top-notch or not; they are the bait MK uses to make people believe they are a legitimate company that can compete with Estee Lauder, Clinique, and the other real prestigious beauty brands. I never tried it since I have oily skin and the F3 is heavy on alcohol, and alcohol is one of the most dangerous ingredients for the skin. Instead, I tried TW because my then SD told me that it was “so innovative and advanced”, etc. I used it for 2 years and my skin did not improve ONE bit. That was only one of the things that disappointed me about this lousy company, and when time passed and I accumulated evidence and proofs against MK and I discovered Pink Truth, I decided to break up COMPLETELY with MK. Why use the ill-formulated products of an unethic brand? After trying the real good stuff that is out there, I finally found what works best for my skin (basically a mix of Elizabeth Arden and Olay) and I don’t have to deal with pink zombies nor overrated poor products!!! 🙂 I TOTALLY REFUSE to spend one single cent of my hard-earned money on MK EVER, specially consideing their is FAR BETTER products/brands in the market.

    • I have tried Oil of Olay and it gives me painful cysts under my eyes, which stinks. Same with Ponds. Maybe I could try Eliz Arden…

      This sucks, I tell ya.

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18. I find what works for me and use it. I don’t stick to one brand. A cleanser in one brand with a moisturizer in another may work best for me. As of right now, I don’t have any MK products, but my hands have been so dry, I may get the Satin Hands set b/c that worked for me when I used it several years ago.

19. Well, you can count me as a FORMER customer. There is one thing the classic line did (at least cleanser) that I have trouble finding elsewhere. Remove eye makeup. I have extremely sensitive eyes and have tried dozens of eye makeup removers. Every single one irriates my eyes. My old Classic Formula 2 cleanser removed all makeup (including eye makeup) without ever irritating my eyes. So with the demise of that line, I’ve had to go looking elsewhere, and say goodbye to Mary Kay. I tried the new botanical line. My reaction? Very, very “Meh”. Its very, very average. And it does a very crappy job on the eye makeup.

    So after 35 years of using MK, good bye. I’ve been forced to look for a new product and I believe I’ve found a pretty good one.

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    • To Former Customer..You and I are on the same page. The Botanical
      line is a joke…and TW makes my skin break out. If you have found a
      new product similar to the Old Classic Formula 2 Line, would you please
      share with me what you are using. I used the Formula 2 line for 25 yrs.
      I can’t believe MK did this.
      Thank You.

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      • Jane, I’ve found two that work. One is pricey, but it does work, although it’s not my favorite of the two. Philosophy cleanser. It’s not my favorite of the 2 because it’s a little thin, and the price. The one I really like and doesn’t irritate my eyes is a Burt’s Bees cleanser. It’s the one for Hydration (and has a blue band on the front of the tube). Burt’s also has another that is pretty good for sensitive skin – Clean Cotton I think it’s called. The both run around $10. I REALLY find I’m liking the Burt’s products. If you try them, let me know what you think.

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        • Jane, one more thing about Burt’s that I love – they don’t do animal testing (if that appeals to you). I’m trying to look for that these days.

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    • Please tell me what you found, Former Customer!! I am desperate.

      I agree with you 1000% everything you said about CC Form. 2. And guess what – I’m 58 years old and people think I am in my 40s, so YES. IT WORKED.

      SHAME ON YOU, MARY KAY.

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      • Whoops, see you mentioned it already – thank you!

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    • Where did you find s good one. I’m 84 and I loved the Classics and was devastated to hear they shelved it. I get compliments on my skin a lot and it was because of the Classics. I still lave old tubes with tiny bits in them am sparingly use them to make it last.

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20. I have EXTREMELY dry skin. Used the basic since I was 19. That’s when they only had 1 line which became the extra emollient line. It’s the ONLY product I ever found that kept my from skin not only being sooooooo dry, but looking radiant and younger. About 20 yrs ago they discont the xe cleanser and I tried the regular formula 1. It didn’t work on my dry skin. There was a revolt and they brought it back. I guess all the revolts are dead now cuz they haven’t brought it back this time. Of course Mary Kay herself is dead now and the money mongering vultures are there Judy picking the bones I suppose. I’ve been praying to find something comparable with no luck. I tried Albolene cream…not even close. I even tried adding glycerine and beeswax, which are what’s in xe cleanser that’s not on Albolene…still not the same. If they’d make 1 batch of the stuff once a year, I’d take out a loan and buy enough to last me the test of my life so I wouldn’t ever hafta go thru this again.

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    • I gave Time Wise the old college try when it first came out – NOPE. I have rosacea and the Classic system worked well for me. I am so bummed to see it go.

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    • I totally agree.

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21. I just want to say I am really unhappy with the new products I have gotten. I’ve tried two new cleansers and I can’t stand either one of them. I’ve been using Mary Kay Basic Skin line since 1980 when I myself was a consultant. Within two weeks, maybe less of using the Timewise products, I saw immediate increased VISIBLE wrinkles!! Horrified. Doesnt ‘feel good on my skin, dries it out so much! Today I found a bottle of Creamy Cleanser Formula 2 and was so happy – I put it on and my face felt SO GOOD. I would do anything to be able to continue to buy this product. I see some on Amazon, but I’m afraid they’re old. Really ticks me off Mary Kay!!!!! >:(

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22. I know exactly how you feel about the disappointment in losing the classic. I was a formula 2 user for 30 years. Timewise is NOTHING like the classic. The botanical is even worse. I will not even purchase Mary Kay makeup at this point I’m so angry with this company. Thirty year loyal customer who spent at least 25 to 30 monthly on this company’s products. My skin is a wreck from trying out their other formulas. I quit. I’m using Elizabeth Arden Visible Difference now.

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23. Oooooohhhhh…..Botanical. How cutting edge! Blah! Mary Kay is so behind the times it’s not funny. Botanical innovations hit the market years ago.

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24. I am researching the ingredients in the Mary Kay line as I am an Advanced Clinical Skin Care specialist, Oncology Esthetician, and Medi-Spa Practitioner. I have a client who is using Mary Kay products and through my research Mary Kay is a big FAIL in my books in terms of ingredients. What is the use in putting skin products on your face if the ingredients themselves are causing underlying damage (free radical damage) to your skin? There are sooooooo……. many more options of products out there that visibly work in providing the consumer results right away, at affordable pricing. Both lines I carry in my Spa offer so much more without the nasty ingredients at a similar pricing.

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    • What examples of options are you using Jodie?

      Poor me, I still haven’t found anything like Creamy Cleanser. The TW is just abrasive every day and its TOO abrasive for this old face daily.

      Does anyone know of a product like Creamy Cleanser anywhere?

      I also found the TW doesn’t remove makeup. Thank goodness my BC must’ve known this as she gave me a free little bottle of some makeup remover that works tho its oily, but now I NEED it. Never needed that with Creamy Cleanser or Basics MK.

      I’d appreciate any help with finding a nice gentle, cleansing product. Thank you.

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25. I must say something here. Not to diminsh anyone’s experience expertise about skin care products/ingredients – I don’t care what’s in them or how they are tested. I only care if it cuts the oil and feels good/clean.

    I am disgusted/bored to death with the new anti-aging mantra. Have you seen our movie stars? They get the best of everything and guess what? They are aging!!!! Yup, they look older every year.

    The joke’s on us. We keep believing the hype. Use XYZ product and erase 10 bagillion years off your face. Are you kidding me? Have you taken an objective look at Dr. OZ? I’m sure he’s a nice guy and all, but he’s OLD looking. Is he not using the very products he’s hawking? If he is, they aren’t working.

    I’ve seen woman who have used every imaginable anti-aging youth-promoting age-defying (good Lord) product on the market. They get facials faithfully, and they look old. Their skin has a cared-for texture, but that’s it. You can’t stop sagging. The jowls will drop no matter what you put on it.

    I have eliminated everything fancy. I use Prell to wash and whatever I can find in the house for light moisture. The other day I found a 6 year old bottle of my grandson’s kid’s SPF 45 Water -Babies sunscreen – good enough for now. After that, I’ve got some Avon body butter. I am determined to use what I can find in the house till it’s gone.

    I am done spending my retirement on facial crap.

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26. My skincare routine is pretty minimal. Just twice-daily washings with gentle bath soap and a nightly moisturizing routine of coconut oil. My skin is a combination of oily and sensitive, so name-brand products tend not to work well on me. This routine has, and has not enriched a sleazy MLM like MK

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